Monkey Man (2024)
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Transcript
Steph (00:00)
Whoa, like I've never seen that before. Even if it's like something very small, like the way somebody fights or a little kind of death or something, it's like, ooh, ooh, like.
Netta (00:08)
the way someone
bites off someone else's nose.
Steph (00:10)
That was crazy.
Welcome to Popcorn Moms, the podcast for parents who love their kids most but loved movies first. We're your co-host Stephanie.
Netta (00:26)
and Netta, two movie lovers turned moms. Join us as we reconnect with the things that make us whole outside of parenthood, namely watching movies. Today's movie is Monkey Man, a 2024 action thriller directed, produced, co-written and starring Dev Patel in his directorial debut. yes. Yes.
Steph (00:47)
Yes, pause for dev. Yep.
Netta (00:52)
The film stars Patel as an anonymous young man who unleashes a campaign of vengeance against the corrupt leaders who murdered his mother and continue to systematically victimize the poor and powerless.
This was Stephanie's pick. So Steph, why did you choose Monkey Man?
Steph (01:10)
See you.
So many. Well, not so many reasons. I think when we last met, movie, like often our movies lead into other things that we want to see, given the vibe or the flavor, whatever. And so the last movie we watched was kind of action-y, but not action-y enough for myself. And it made me just want more. It was like a wet your whistle type film for action. And I wanted loud. I wanted big. I wanted stylized, gruesome action.
And the first movie that came to mind when I felt like that was Monkey Man. It came out a while ago. This is typically a movie I would have seen right away in theaters pre-children, but now things are different. So it lingered and then something I always wanted to see. But when you can hit like the mood and the movie and it just is magic. And so for me, this this pick was this is what I want to watch. I'm in the mood for it. It is
ready and queued up to deliver. And I watched the trailer just to make sure this is what I wanted. And I have to say the trailer is one of the best trailers I've ever seen in my life. We will revisit the trailer. But it just I just wanted this and it delivered. It delivered in an excellent way. I. Loved this movie. Did you think I wouldn't? Really?
Netta (02:17)
Mm-mm.
Did it deliver, I want to ask.
So glad.
I'm so glad. I wasn't sure. I feel like the last few
movies, I don't know. I feel like the last few movies I've been like, I love this movie, or I really like it or blah. Like, I feel like you've been more lukewarm about some of the movies lately.
Steph (02:38)
Mm.
I know, I do feel, I
know, I do feel like the past, which is so rare. Like I feel like the past three or four, I've been like, yeah, it was okay. And I was in the mood for something I knew would just be like a dinger, like a home run. And this for me would be it, unless it totally crashed and burned. Cause this had like all the pieces, right? that on the list of some of my faves.
Netta (03:03)
Yeah.
Mmm.
Steph (03:06)
It was outstanding.
Loved it. Like, I think there's a tagline in the trailer where it says, like, as soon as you finish watching it, you're to want to watch it again. I immediately felt like that. I immediately was like, reverse to the beginning. I will now sit here for two more hours and just soak this beauty in of this film. Excellent. Did you like it? OK.
Netta (03:23)
Yeah, yeah. yes. yes. yes. ⁓
Yes, I did. Very, very much. I wasn't totally sure what to expect in terms of quality because it seemed amazing. I remember watching the trailer when it first came out and I think I sent it to you immediately and it just looked so good.
Steph (03:37)
Yes!
Yes, I know we were both all over it.
Yeah.
Netta (03:46)
but I deliberately kind of stayed away from any information about it, but from reviews, from this and that, because I wanted to go in fresh, but I did come across an interview, or not an interview, it was Dev Patel introducing the movie at a festival or something. And he just sounded so apologetic. He did, well, yeah, it was kind of this vibe of,
Steph (03:50)
Yes. Yeah.
Mmm.
Which is a bit concerning, like why does he have to apologize?
Netta (04:14)
You know, we had a really hard time getting the money for it. And then when we did, we had to shoot it in a really short timeline. was kind of like, we did the best we could. It was like this.
Steph (04:26)
I'm so weird, it's like,
here's this completely tight masterpiece. I'm so sorry, we did the best we could. It's like, yo, this is one of the best things to hit cinema in years, And he like single show, like single manned it through and through. Dev, high fives.
Netta (04:36)
You
It was crazy, crazy. I'm so impressed.
I'm so impressed. I Dev Patel is now, I mean, I don't really have like a ranking of celebrities, but I mean, Dev Patel was up there, but now just the talent and the, mean, my God. Yes.
Steph (04:48)
Oof.
No.
Yeah, it's. I know, I think the versatility, the talent like when like
I knew he directed it and then I was watching the opening and closing credits both like to see his name constantly come up like written, directed, acted, produced. was like, geez, did he would would he like anyone else to participate in the making of this movie? Yes, yes, yes.
Netta (05:04)
Mm-hmm.
Yes, I know. Yeah.
Yeah, we should say he did co-write it. There were two other writers on it that were credited.
Nonetheless, this is pretty clearly like his vision of a movie. This is the Dev Patel Show.
Steph (05:27)
Inspiration. Yeah, like whether he was penning it or not.
Yeah, it was like his inspiration. And I love movies where it's like the brainchild of like one because like sometimes it's hard. Like when they're like we've talked a lot about movies, it's like, I didn't like this aspect of this. And it's hard to know. Like, was that the writing? Was it the directing? Was it this piece? This piece? So it's nice when like a movie is kind of the brainchild of one person. And then it's sink or swim.
there, you know, you get like a more of a maybe a uniform picture. I don't know.
Netta (05:57)
Yeah, I think so. And even if you can pinpoint, you know, I think the script wasn't there, I think, you know, this, was an issue of this or that. You don't actually know was that actually the writers fault, for example, because, you know, you have somebody who comes up with a script, and then you get rewrite and you get notes from the producers and blah, blah, blah, blah.
Steph (06:02)
Mm-hmm.
I know, false, right?
rewrites and yeah, actors
improv actors change things director comes in editing room cuts like
Netta (06:19)
Exactly.
Yeah, like, I don't think you can't ever really credit or blame any one aspect of a movie or any one person or any one role most of the time. In this case, I think I feel pretty confident just giving full props to Dev Patel ⁓ when it's directed, co-written, produced, starring. It's it just and it I don't know. It just this is yeah.
Steph (06:38)
Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Produced acted. Yeah.
Netta (06:50)
The Dove Patel Show and it's outstanding. yeah.
Steph (06:51)
I'm here for it. I know
he like just, ooh, let's just take a moment and talk about how good looking he is. I was gonna say like, I've seen him in a couple of things and it's like, okay, yeah, he's like a good looking guy. When he's walking around in that black suit, ready to kick ass, I was like, ⁓ my God, I feel flush.
Netta (07:06)
my God. ⁓ my God.
my God. Yeah. Like there's that scene where he takes off his shirt and the women in the yard are all, it's like, yes, they are expressing this is every woman in the world. I do. There were moments where I do wish the camera had lingered on him longer and more. There is a way I think that movies or TV shows, whatever, that like
Steph (07:14)
I'll go like, ooh, I know. Yes, yes. Yes, every woman.
Netta (07:33)
There are ways you can use a camera to linger, to let us say, objectify, perhaps.
Steph (07:35)
Yes.
Are you wanting Dev to objectify himself? He seems like such a nice man that he would find it awkward.
Netta (07:43)
Yes, and maybe that's an awkward thing to do.
Maybe it would be, but like it would have been worth it. I'm just, I just, think that there's a kind of a lack of objectification, I suppose.
Steph (07:51)
It would have been worth it.
No.
Netta (08:02)
Like there's
and yet it doesn't matter. I mean, he's still, the hotness comes through, my God.
Steph (08:07)
I know,
I know ridiculous stunner. know she, Neda is fanning herself. That black suit.
Netta (08:10)
Yeah. Yeah.
Steph (08:14)
⁓ that black suit kills me.
Netta (08:17)
because when he first came on the scene, it was Slumdog Millionaire. He's a cutie pie. He's such a cutie pie.
Steph (08:21)
Yeah. Yeah, it was it was
Q.D. pie. I know for me, it was like the back end of this movie. It's like, oh, this is a man. This man is here. The kick in ass against me in the black suit, the black suit and the kick in ass and the hair.
Netta (08:26)
but...
yes. Mmm. Yep. yeah.
Okay.
Steph (08:38)
Back to reality.
Netta (08:38)
I wanted to ask you about the action in this movie. Because this is a thing that you've talked about before
Steph (08:41)
Yes.
Netta (08:44)
I wanted your perspective on the action in this movie.
Steph (08:47)
Yes. OK. Yes.
Let's talk about the action. The action in this movie and the whole absolutely phenomenal. think they did a couple really cool things and that they had like. Three or four main fight like chunks and each of them had like.
Whoa, like I've never seen that before. Even if it's like something very small, like the way somebody fights or a little kind of death or something, it's like, ooh, ooh, like.
Netta (09:11)
the way someone
bites off someone else's nose.
Steph (09:14)
That was crazy.
That was absolutely insane. like even but that in the context of how that axe fight took place was like, like I have a note here, the axe in the guy's neck when he's running by was like, whoa.
Netta (09:25)
Yes, yeah.
Steph (09:33)
And then like the axe along the wall, like there was just so many beautifully choreographed
I think the action on the whole, is interesting because Sean turned to me maybe after the second fight sequence and was like, I'm a little let down. They're really using that shaky cam style. That's the born identity style. Like the really close, really shaky cam. You can't really focus on anything. And I kind of paused for a second. I was like, they are. I think this is on purpose. Yeah, this is a choice. And Sean's like, what are you talking about? Like, it's going to stop. Just watch.
Netta (09:59)
really?
Steph (10:04)
the things I've heard about this movie and the action are that it's really, good. Like, like John Wick-esque and John Wick does not use that style. And so I like, I think that they're using this as a tool to show the chaos and the amateur nature of the fighting in the first half of the movie. He is chaotic. He is untamed. He is emotional. They're fighting in close quarters and he like...
doesn't know how to do that. Like in hallways, in a bathroom, and he's sweaty and frantic. It's it's frenetic, right? It's manic. It's all of these things. ⁓ Messy, unclean. These are the things that I wrote down. It's unprofessional. It's frenzied. And then he goes, he takes a breath. He gets trained. Every fight scene thereafter is like that classic, like we're now going to pan out. We're going to use cool shots. It's very tempered. It's like he is like
slow and methodical, but like quick, you know what I mean? And so it's like, you see this crazy chaotic side in the front end and then the back end is like the sense of mastery over his emotions and his self. And they use the camera as like a trick, I guess, to show that. Anyway, I picked up on that. Sean was like, ⁓ damn, you were right.
because the second half, they're doing it so well in some of those shots. Like, my God, the shot when he's like in front of the bar and it's backlit and he's silhouetted fighting the two guys on the sides of him.
Netta (11:23)
Mm-hmm.
Which one was that? Like upstairs?
Steph (11:31)
It's in his like,
yeah, it's when he's like working his way up. So it's like like the way he's like fighting there and it's like this great static shot, right? There's no shaky cam. There's no close panning. Like it is a static shot there. And then he jumps down and smokes that guy's neck off the bar. I was like, my God, that was exciting. And then like when he goes and he's fighting like the police chief, who's like one of the two villains he's after. And it's all the mirrored shots. And you get again that really good
Netta (11:35)
Yes, yes yes, yes, yes
Yeah.
You
Yes.
Steph (12:00)
like view from the side. my God, when they punched each other's hands, like there's all these little things that it's like, ⁓ like not seeing that, right? But one shot that was just so, so cool is when they're in ⁓ the bigger bar, like the ballroom and like the people from the temple also come and help. There's an overhead shot, it maybe lasts 30 seconds. And he's doing hand to hand fighting with four or five guys coming at him.
Netta (12:04)
Yes. Yeah.
Mmm.
Mm.
Steph (12:26)
And it's just so static. I guess I'm trying to say the beginning half, things are moving around and it's crazy. And then the second half, you get these really long static shots to really show you the intricacy of the choreography. I think it's like a tool to show you that he's in control now. Like he knows what he's doing. He has a mission. He is laser focused and that tracks with the story, right?
Netta (12:38)
Mm.
Mm-hmm.
Steph (12:48)
Like the first half, he's like nervous, he's sweaty, he's like, my God. And the second half, he is like, go, this is what I need to do.
Netta (12:54)
Yes, I feel like, okay, there's like two things here that I want to say. We'll see if I remember the second thing by the time I finished the first. But him biting off the guy's nose and the thing with the axe, it reminded me of ⁓ the Indonesian martial arts movies.
Steph (12:57)
Mm-hmm.
Okay.
Yeah.
Mmm, mm-hmm. I know we still have to watch that too. Mmm. I know I would. Yeah.
Netta (13:15)
that I've watched, The Raid, and yeah, yeah. I think you would love it. Because it's this, but like amped up.
And I think it's called The Night Comes For Us, something like that. And that one, like I could barely watch some of the fight scenes because it was like, it was quite gory and I wasn't sure how far they were going to take it. Like it was like a horror movie. Some of it, it felt like, I mean, it wasn't, it I mean, a little bit for me. It just, did have my, was kind of hiding behind my fingers a little bit.
Steph (13:30)
Mmm!
okay. Too Blair.
Hmm. I know I don't like when adventures
into like gross out for gross out sake. OK, OK.
Netta (13:53)
I don't think it's for gross head sake though. think it is,
it is like, ⁓ it's a pretty unique from what I understand, it's a pretty unique like martial arts style. And these are just like the best people in the world doing it. So it really is about, I think the fighting style and you know, the story and blah, blah, like, it's not just for the sake of grossness. ⁓ But yeah, but I think that this movie,
Steph (14:02)
Okay, interesting.
Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ cool.
Mm-hmm.
Hmm.
Netta (14:20)
knows martial arts movies and it knows all of these types. Like I think Dev Patel has watched a million of these movies from all over the world. That's my sense. And that the people he's working with, I imagine like the fight choreographers, all of them are drawing on these different pieces. ⁓ So that was one thing. Do I remember the second point? ⁓
Steph (14:30)
Yeah. Yeah.
Hmm.
Netta (14:48)
when it comes to fight scenes and kind of the differences between the earlier ones and the latter ones, at least the ones in the second half and that ballroom scene in particular, the music.
Steph (14:59)
Hmm.
Netta (15:01)
I know, I know, my God. I mean, the music here, I think just like as a kind of North American white lady audience, I mean, obviously just like, ⁓ a hundred percent. like, just like music that I have never really, a style of music that I'm not familiar with ⁓ and songs that I have never heard before and it just works so well. this is, I think the first
Steph (15:01)
You know I love to talk about the music.
Mmm. I loved it.
Netta (15:25)
that there has been this like very prominent...
like difference between the style of music and the action going on that has worked really well. We've talked about this. I hated the music in The Third Man because it was just so, it just, didn't make any sense. You hated the music in Black Bag for the same reason. And this was one where you had, it wasn't
Steph (15:34)
Yes, it, yeah.
Black bag Jesus
is so.
Netta (15:55)
quite classical, it was just like this very soft music. And, you know, to your point about it being about him in control, and this is art, and this is choreographer, like this is him.
Steph (15:59)
Yeah, it was.
Yep. Yep.
Netta (16:10)
just like commanding and conducting what's going on here. And then when the temple woman come and then it's pandemonium and then it's like full on metal. And then that gets mixed in with that softer music. So you have this kind of hybrid going on at the same time. Anyways, I thought the music in that scene was also just outstanding.
Steph (16:16)
Mm hmm. ⁓ yeah.
Hmm.
I know
I watch like a lot of action movies the music can take a great action scene to like exceptional. And I think this is one of the movies that that has worked very well, like throughout, like the music really worked to enhance all of those scenes.
fighting scenes. There was a lot of like 80s music also again, very prominent, like haunting. Like I loved the mixes, like the haunting mixes of like, think it's like it was Roxanne and like Mamas and the Papas in there. And then in the trailer, Phil Collins,
Netta (16:59)
Mm.
Steph (17:03)
to your point, it really enhanced those scenes. It was very interesting and different.
Netta (17:07)
Yeah, yeah, totally. I do feel like this movie, as I was kind of like watching it and taking note of something or noticing some things, it felt like a lot of the stuff I was noticing were things that we have seen in a lot of the movies we've watched. So like in Atomic Blonde, so much of it was like the lighting and the colors.
Steph (17:15)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Netta (17:31)
And that was so prominent here as well. ⁓ The kind of big bombastic music and the way it was used reminded me of Marie Antoinette in a way. And like kind of that the mix of genres and like the mix of styles that are used and I don't know, I think again, it kind of comes back to this sense that like, I think this movie comes out of
Steph (17:33)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm, yeah, yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Netta (17:58)
knowing this genre and knowing this type of movie extremely well.
Steph (18:03)
really
well. Yeah, let's like dig into this like the revenge tale, right? So like, ⁓ my God, I love a revenge. I know one of my notes is like, I love a dark past revenge sale. I love. Yeah, I wrote like I love like the tortured past, the failed attempts that you got to go do training and you get a training montage. You get the wise wisdom from somebody that then brings commitment and strength.
Netta (18:08)
Mmm, yes. You love a revenge tale.
Yeah
Mm. Yeah.
Yep.
Steph (18:32)
to then go get the villain and then you nod to your mentor. Like, I love it. It's such a classic story. I think you can do it well. You can do it really well. And I think this movie did it really, really well, but it's so funny because like, I'm watching it and before, this ties in with also like the idea of like the reveal of the motivation for the revenge. I think they did it in a very crafty different way. Cause usually these movies go,
Netta (18:34)
Mm-hmm. Yep.
Mm-hmm.
Steph (18:59)
Like the impetus for the revenge happens. The person goes on a rampage. They may not be a skilled. They need to regroup or they are skilled, but they're injured and then they go and you get the final big whatever. This movie, you don't know the movie motivation right off the hop. So it's like interesting, but let's talk about that in second. Anyway, what I was going to say about the revenge side of things is like I'm watching it I'm like, there's before I really figured out that this was a classic revenge tale.
like, I'm seeing flavors of gangs of New York. We have a Batman Begins moment with the training. We have a gladiator moment when he comes back to the the arena and he just smokes the other wrestlers and is like, what? That was wild. And so there's all the gang. I know you haven't seen gangs in New York, so you can't. But this had heavy flavors of that in the beginning, which was lovely. And then, yeah, just but then like, ⁓ all those stories are like.
Netta (19:37)
Mmm... Mmm...
Mmm.
Steph (19:53)
the revenge tales, the training, blah, blah, blah. And so I think this movie did it really well. The reason I think they did it really well is because of how they revealed the motivation over time. Like his mom and his village and stuff. And so I was so curious how you felt about like the first half of the movie, we just get snippets, right? We get clips.
Netta (20:04)
Mm.
Steph (20:18)
So you're kind of piecing together like, his mom is past, something violent occurred, and he's now out for revenge. But you don't really like get the full breadth of it. And so I was like, hmm, how did you feel about it? And then you get the big.
Netta (20:33)
Yeah, I thought it was really effective we're given enough to try and put pieces together. Because I think what we have are like three villains, right? We've got the woman who runs the hotel and is kind of the madam slash trafficker slash.
Steph (20:35)
Yeah.
yes. Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Yes.
Yeah,
Netta (20:54)
Bad lady. ⁓
Steph (20:55)
like a pimp. Yeah.
Netta (20:57)
We've got the chief of police and we've got the religious ⁓ leader zealot guy.
Steph (21:05)
Yeah, I was going to say zealot. Pretty wild.
Netta (21:07)
but I think we don't necessarily know how these pieces come together.
Steph (21:11)
Yeah. Yeah.
Netta (21:12)
I think when the reveal happens, part of what's effective about it is.
Okay, I think one thing is that it's in the context of this like drug trip. And that's just a trope I really like that idea of like, you take something and you reach down and you access this like very dark part of yourself and you confront it and then you come out this new man, it's a rebirth thing.
Steph (21:23)
I
I know.
Netta (21:43)
I don't know why, and I don't know why I'm so into it, ⁓ but I do like that a lot. So I think there's that part. But I think it's also just like what actually happened to the mom and how brutal it was. Like setting somebody on fire. Yeah.
Steph (21:46)
I know that's interesting.
Yeah. Ooh, I know.
Holy guacamole. It was intense.
Netta (22:03)
if you were to have that right at the beginning, I think it would relegate it to being a prologue, right? It's like, this is just the setup and now we can have our classic revenge tale. I think setting it up the way they did where there's buildup, there's buildup, you see how haunted he is by it.
Steph (22:11)
Mm Yeah. Yeah.
Netta (22:22)
And then it takes this, drug experience to really kind of access it and for us to see it as a whole.
Steph (22:31)
Hmm.
Netta (22:31)
and the kind of shocking nature of it.
I think it does make it feel more present and it does add to the sense of why revenge is so, why he's still after this. And the fact that he, not just why, but just the fact that he can't let it go. Whereas again, if it was happened at the beginning and it was just the setup, it's like, okay, well, this is just the reason that we have the movie.
Steph (22:39)
for sure.
Yes.
Hmm.
Netta (22:57)
Right? This is just like the reason we're giving him it's good blah blah blah. Instead it feels like very alive and very kind of in the character.
Steph (23:06)
Yes, I loved so much. Like the snippets were good and it's like, OK, we're going for a venture. giving that reveal halfway through when we're in a place of like, OK, we've seen him go after the guy. We're not entirely sure the depth of this guy's involvement, per se, and like the levels here. And then to see the reveal to your point, that was shocking. Like somehow they've struck that balance and to see how all those clips in his mind like feed into the one
uninterrupted shot. Like it was like, whoa, to see the depth of it. like, yeah, like to your point, like it did feel more alive with him within him as a character that he had to then like kind of accept it, overcome it, and then channel like his emotions about it into like his training or whatever. as an audience person to see that it's suddenly for me was like, my God, like get going. Like you got to train and get your ass
back out to kill this guy because like that is bananas they did it in such a clever way to separate it, I think, from a lot of revenge tales where it's like, well, here's now the setup. This was like, we know something's going on. We know he's on a mission. ⁓ this is serious business. This is like intense. He has to get on his horse and like get going here. ⁓
oh, the emotional aspect of I'm like a mom now to the little guy. The mom son thing. I was like beside myself. I was like.
Netta (24:33)
⁓ no!
Steph (24:35)
Like there was something really weird, like a different level unlocked, I guess. And then it made me think about how a lot of these revenge tales, do not feature a lot of these, like there's movies out there where it's like, my mom was killed or whatever, but not in this way. Mostly it's like girlfriends, wives, children, like siblings, dads, like the mom son thing. I was like, my God, it got me, man.
Netta (24:35)
You
And I wonder if some of that is because you really have a risk of it being like a mama's boy feel.
Steph (25:04)
I know,
probably like, but the way they revealed this, like, this is why I think it all ties back to this very clever reveal, because it doesn't feel mama's boyish. feels like strong and loving and yeah, like, well, that's 100 % what it was.
Netta (25:16)
No, no, it feels childhood trauma.
Yeah,
think okay to this okay, so about the emotional thing and just kind of the sense of like Like you watch it you're like, yeah, no go get that revenge like at the end the last scene where he confronts the like big baddie the final boss and There's flashbacks to the scene of what happened to his mom
Steph (25:29)
Yeah.
Yeah!
Yes.
Netta (25:47)
usually those flashbacks, it's like, yes, it's meant to remind you of like, what's at stake and what's motivating him, blah, blah. And usually it just like, it's fine because who, again, who cares? I mean, it's not like who cares, but it is kind of like, you know, this, the thing that's motivating him, it's like the logical reason for going after these people. or the emotional reason for going after these people, it's what drives him. We kind of need that in order to accept that this person would go through.
Steph (25:57)
Mm-hmm. It's.
Mm-hmm.
Yes, and like bring it full circle and yeah.
Netta (26:15)
all of this and do this, yeah.
But in this case, the flashbacks, that reminder was actually I think quite effective when the flashbacks happen, I'm like, yeah, no, please like beat that. Like just kill that guy. Like I want you to just keep punching him just so I can feel the relief of you getting that revenge and of you.
Steph (26:30)
Yeah, yeah like you yeah, yeah
Yes, right?
Netta (26:40)
punching, if you just like beating him.
Steph (26:41)
Yeah!
I think, right? do you think? Please do. Yeah. Yes. Yeah.
Netta (26:43)
beating him to death. Please do it, do it for me as the audience. And that was sparked by those flashbacks. And that would
not have happened if the reveal hadn't happened as it did.
Steph (26:54)
Yeah,
Netta (26:54)
I'll also say, think with the reveal of the backstory with the mom and what happened to her happening at that midpoint.
Steph (27:02)
Mm-hmm.
Netta (27:04)
I think it was also effective because it did actually mark a shift for him, right? Because I think what you have is at the beginning,
Steph (27:08)
Yes, yeah, very clearly. Yeah.
Netta (27:13)
that first half he's motivated by what happened to his mom in the past. And then he has this time in the temple.
that temple is kind of populated by a mix of cis women and trans women and trans women kind of are the leaders of
Steph (27:26)
Mm-hmm.
Netta (27:30)
where he has this flashback and this whole trip experience. And it's also where he meets the women of this temple who are among the most marginalized in the society.
Steph (27:37)
Hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Netta (27:43)
who are being pushed out by the same forces and who are being oppressed by the same forces that led to the very brutal murder of his mom. And so I think you also get this shift of it was about the past, it's now also about the present. And it's kind of part of him maturing and being able to kind of
Steph (27:45)
Yes, yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Yes. Yes.
Mm-hmm.
Netta (28:06)
like maturing internally, emotionally, and then also kind of physically and in his fighting ability and in his ability to actually do this. I think he finds new purpose as well during this time. So it is about kind of integrating that past childhood experience with the kind of the needs of the present, which it turns out is the same. He just wants to go and get revenge and it serves both purposes.
Steph (28:27)
Yeah, I was going
it brings it to the now. It's another element of motivation. It makes him more of like a like a hero in a sense.
You know what I mean? Like I'm thinking of the scene. Like he just comes out with like he's got this new fancy suit. Like it's his new look. You know, he gets a bunch of money as a thank you for the people in the temple to help them. And then it's also this layer of like, I will also go be the force to remove this evil. And then they show up and they help. And it's like, ⁓ that's really cool. but it does thrust him into like a heroesque role.
Netta (28:41)
Hmm
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. But yeah, I think like...
Yes, it's not only about him. It basically it takes it from being a a revenge story to also being I think a politics story and a kind of human liberation. You know, it's about the powerful and the powerless.
Steph (29:04)
Him.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, yes. Yes. Some good layers there.
Yeah.
Netta (29:22)
And again,
I think it kind of makes it so that like that's not just background, but that that is like really that's foregrounded at that point.
Steph (29:27)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. Yes.
Speaking about these things, you want to talk about the end?
Netta (29:35)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. Very Bill- Kill Bill, right?
Steph (29:40)
Oh, I was going to say, yes, also flavors of Kill Bill, which is also a revenge tale. I was making all these notes. I was like, oh, my God, it reminds me of all these things. Oh, they're all revenge tales. Anyway, what was I going to say? Yes, we must discuss the end.
Netta (29:42)
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Steph (30:01)
and I know the end was like a very long sequence, but like, let's talk about the end when he goes confronts the religious zealot man. And that guy's very calm, cool and collected. And I was like, this guy has tricks up his sleeve. This is no good. And then he pulls out those crazy. This is all spoilers alert people. know the entire movie anyway.
Netta (30:08)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
I feel like we've spoiled so many movies
Steph (30:25)
⁓ But yeah, he pulls out those things. It's like, so that's kind of cool. And then he stabs him and then he puts his hand up and is like, that's cool. And then he he stabs him in head. That was like outrageous. And also like, whoa. But like, you know, like in these revenge tales, he's got to get his, you know, so it's good. He kills him. Great.
Netta (30:35)
Yeah.
Steph (30:45)
Then he has this moment. He's standing there. Like the thing I want to talk about is like. He dies. He dies, yes, is that your take? And then the end credit music, which had me so emotional. Like, how do we feel? Because we've talked a lot about how like these revenge tales, whatever, like what then for these characters? And so they almost always have to go. And this made me think of you and how you said that once so harshly and I was like, ⁓
Netta (30:53)
I think so.
Yeah.
Steph (31:13)
but not this time.
Netta (31:14)
You
Steph (31:14)
But also like, okay, like what is left? Like, I just feel like for a lot of those movies, it's like what's left, but like, no, this guy had like, he's young, he's gorgeous, there's people, there's, like there was things left. But anyway, I just feel like they did it so well. Like there wasn't this, it was emotional, but because of how they did it so like quick, like he just left in this one kind of breath and then like.
Netta (31:27)
Yeah.
Mm.
Steph (31:40)
like passes out and like fade to black. And then this music that has got me chills. Like, I don't know. I loved it. I thought it was done so well. Like, what was your take?
Netta (31:50)
Mm.
I think this thing of ⁓ killing off the heroes of revenge movies.
I think we have a hard time thinking about characters having to rebuild their lives. There's so many characters where we kill them off because it's a more satisfying ending than imagining them living with whatever happened over the course of the movie. And that's not just revenge stuff. That's also, I think a lot of TV show characters get killed off for this reason.
Steph (32:04)
Yeah, man.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Netta (32:23)
I think a lot of minor characters get killed off for this reason. Where just like as an audience, their death is more satisfying provides more resolution than trying to imagine them, picking up the pieces. So, and that's something that I don't know if that's good or bad. you know, ⁓ but I think it does say something about us as a society. I don't know what, but fine.
Steph (32:35)
Like what next?
Mm-hmm.
I know, I agree with you,
I agree with you.
Netta (32:51)
fine.
⁓ But I think what I found significant about the end
was him looking at the mural of the story that his mom told him. Hanuman, I think. God, I know. But he, this, yeah, which is referenced throughout. I mean, this comes from his mom, but it comes up again and again, and the themes of that story come up again and again. And I think what it was for me is like,
Steph (32:59)
Yeah, it like Hanuman? can be a butcher of the thing. yeah, but him recollecting the story and the hero and.
Yeah, yes.
Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
Netta (33:23)
in many, many movies, including in many revenge stories, but also just in many, movies, it's like the hero is Jesus. There's just like certain... There are certain... No, it's true. There's like, you know, ⁓ a death and rebirth scene. There is grace. There is redemption. There is like, there's just certain beats of the kind of...
Steph (33:37)
What?
Yeah
Netta (33:50)
Jesus story and of Jesus as we understand him ⁓ that gets taken up by the heroic character and by the story and by the journey that they undertake.
Steph (33:51)
Mm-hmm.
Hmm.
You love to find the religious undertones in everything we watch. And I'm like, huh?
Netta (34:03)
Okay, I'm sorry, this, no, no, but
this movie, this movie, like, it's not just religious undertones. It's like, it's, I mean, it's very in your face. And so I think, you know, an interesting thing about this movie is that there's something similar happening here, but not with Jesus, I don't think, even though he does kind of have a death and rebirth thing going on.
Steph (34:12)
In your face.
Yeah.
Netta (34:27)
I think the end kind of completes the story of him as this figure from Hinduism
the story of like good and evil in this movie takes on both a kind of like, it's both personal, it's political and it's spiritual. And it's kind of operating at all of these levels at the same time, right? And I think that like the story of, ⁓
Steph (34:46)
That makes sense.
Netta (34:51)
⁓ This deity is kind of gives the structure to the movie and the structure to the movie gives the ethos and the ethics of the movie maybe. And it is one which says destroy in order for new things to grow. It's a kind of and on a political level, that's like a kind of very revolutionary take. And I guess on the personal level, it also makes sense that maybe he dies because he's just destroyed himself as well in a sense.
Steph (34:56)
Mm-hmm.
Yes, yes.
Hmm.
Yeah.
like you have these three kind of. Levels. And it's hitting on the personal, the political and the religious, but not like like that, that story. It provides the world.
And I think the grounding a bit for like what is happening here and what has like inspired like what is this young boy been told as a child? Like what has helped kind of fill his like ethical base and like where is he coming from? You know what I mean? Like he's grown up like with a group of people like living off nature, the woods like very like ⁓ well happy it seems, right? Like
Netta (35:31)
Mm.
Steph (35:52)
and this story. I'm now, yeah, sorry.
Netta (35:54)
I mean.
mean, I'm sorry, but you've got like your Garden of Eden and then something evil comes along and destroys it and you're expelled from it. I'm sorry. It's there. I think it's there. It's there.
It's a hot new take. It's a very hot
Steph (36:07)
Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no,
But see, this is where like I haven't wanted to like venture necessarily, not having one, but where I didn't necessarily think about talking to this like one. I didn't really think of it that way. But you are right. But two, I don't know like Hinduism and what's going on there. Like we say Garden of Eden. But what do we not know about their religious history? There's something else there, you know. So it's not. Yeah, like that's what we are mentally like equating it to. But.
Netta (36:27)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Yes.
I think it does go back to this thing of like how this movie works on many different levels and can work for, I mean, can work for quite different audiences at the same time.
which I don't know how this movie was received in India, ⁓ but it seems to me like it was not made only for the white ladies of North America, let us say. We are not its only audience. ⁓
Steph (37:01)
No, I was... I was gonna say like
I don't think this was made for white ladies in North America. yes, we are. I think there's elements. I think at the base. Like it's marketed as a revenge action thriller. So at its base, if you're not into that, you're not going to watch it.
Netta (37:08)
Yeah.
Steph (37:20)
I think when you sit down and watch it, there is this emotional aspect to it that can draw in other viewers, but if you're not at its core into action thrillers, you're not gonna sit down and watch it.
Netta (37:32)
Yeah, but I guess I just mean like this is clearly has something to say about India Which you would not expect a North American audience to be familiar with enough to connect with that and so I I just I think that it is one of the one of the things going on in this movie that is very skilled is that it can
Steph (37:39)
Yes.
But I feel like... Sorry, go on.
Netta (37:57)
have that as a central focus and that can be very prominent. And even not really knowing anything about that so much and that not being our world, we can still love this movie.
Steph (38:12)
But I feel like many movies have been made that it's like Slumdog Millionaire and there's been some other ones that take place in different parts of the world and you can still be drawn in and love it, be intrigued. isn't there something to be said for like the Western world, like ignorance and intrigue about other different parts?
Netta (38:31)
Well, I guess I just mean that like, there are definitely a lot of Hollywood movies that take place elsewhere. And that ⁓ in doing so very much kind of like other and exoticize this sort of place, like wherever it is, it's just kind of like background for the protagonist adventures. Whereas here it does feel like
Steph (38:38)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah. Yeah. Yes.
Mm-hmm.
Netta (38:55)
the filmmaker, like it feels like Dev Patel has something to say about Indian politics and that that's part of what,
Steph (39:00)
⁓
Netta (39:04)
It just feels like you can watch this movie and that doesn't have to be a big part of the experience of watching it. Just like the religious aspect doesn't have to be a big aspect of watching. Yeah. But I think that like you can also watch it where that is very prominent. And I think just I think whether it's like
Steph (39:15)
Yes, it was a none aspect for me.
I know, I'm, keep going, keep going, keep going.
Netta (39:29)
books or movies, those are the best ones where it has so many different pieces that can fit together in many different ways. So you can watch this movie and it is a, it's a movie about Hindu nationalism, or you can watch this movie and it's a revenge story, or you can watch this movie and it's a,
Steph (39:51)
Mm-hmm.
mother and son.
Netta (39:54)
you know, religious,
you know, journey, a kind of religious story being played out.
Steph (39:59)
Mm-hmm, yes.
Netta (40:02)
and you can watch it and it can be about India or you can watch it and it can be about North America or you can watch, like, I think that when all of those pieces are there, they fit together, but you, as the audience, as the watcher, can kind of, it can mean somewhat different things or it can be a somewhat different movie to each person and every time you watch it, it can be a little bit different. I think that's the mark of like a great movie.
Steph (40:08)
Mm-hmm, yeah.
Netta (40:30)
or a great book or great whatever.
Steph (40:30)
totally, I'm
finally understanding what you were talking about. And yes, Like, I feel like somehow they've layered in all of these different things and it appears or it is like a very tight cohesive story, but there's, there's flavors baked in.
Netta (40:46)
cohesive. Yeah.
Steph (40:51)
of so many different things in such a clever way. Because you know how there there's movies that they try to do so much and then it just falls short. But this one, it almost like all those things you listed, it has through lines of all those things. So if you're like if you pick up on this thread, you can follow that thread throughout the entire movie if that's the thread you want to follow. And like it's so clever in that way. Like I'm sitting here thinking like I don't like it's.
Netta (40:58)
Yeah.
Yes, yes, exactly. Yeah.
Steph (41:18)
Rare. don't know if we've ever experienced this to this degree that we've had. Like we've obviously disagreed on movies and we've already had different. We've had different opinions as well on things, but like we've had very different experiences of like the threads that we followed through here. And I think that's very interesting. We both loved it. We both enjoyed it. We both picked up on a lot of the same things. But then there's other things that like I didn't see that you were like,
like and following that very clear. So this idea to your point about like it can appeal to so many people in so many different ways, such a clever way. ⁓ a rich text.
Netta (41:53)
It's a rich text, right? But I think like what you're,
the way you put it was perfect. Like that thing of that there's these different threads and you can follow different ones or not from beginning to end. Yeah, yeah.
Steph (42:00)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, from beginning to end or not. Yeah.
I know. Like, I feel like if I watched it again, which I will be doing, obviously, I will watch this movie a bajillion times. I'll be so much more tuned to the different things. Like, I think at the surface level, like, I really wanted that action thriller. I wanted the revenge story, the violence. Great. So that's what I took. Not looking necessarily at all these other levels. And it's very exciting to think that I could watch it again.
Netta (42:11)
Mm-hmm.
Steph (42:30)
and see something else and then again and see something else. And I think like you're right, like it's very rare to have a movie that can do that end to end with so many different topics.
Netta (42:40)
and also just be like a really great kick-ass action movie.
Steph (42:43)
yeah, I feel like that's where you went with it mentally, which is great. still and no. And like you still landed like that. It was very impactful and great.
Netta (42:46)
Yeah. You're just like...
Steph (42:52)
I think I'm so stuck on loving the end so much and just how artistic
and masterfully they like, because I feel like in these movies where they choose to kill the hero, that's always a choice in how to do it. Emotionally, messy, like someone weeping over the body, something like you're seeing it, you're not seeing whatever. And this one was just so like, I don't know, I don't know how to describe it, but it was so perfect for the movie and the choices. think I want to review that you said like, it seems like Dev Patel has seen all of the revenge movies and
all of the martial arts movies and then mix that and thread it so well with his experiences of India and his vision. And like to me, just made like he picked all the best pieces of
Netta (43:33)
Mmm.
Steph (43:35)
And like, it's interesting. I said earlier, like the way they marketed was this. And so if you don't like this, you aren't going to see it. I'll stand by that because I do think they marketed it a certain way, at least the trailers I saw and the things I saw. However, I think that was smart.
Netta (43:46)
Mm-hmm.
Steph (43:52)
I think there's a lot of movies out there that they are like on surface level one thing and then they have all these other storylines and then you get a trailer and it's trying to do all these things and the audience doesn't know. Like it almost is like this could appeal to everybody, but because of how we've clipped this together, it appeals to no one. And I feel like this movie, it was like, this can appeal to everybody, but let's go for this target.
Netta (44:09)
Mm. Yeah.
Steph (44:17)
have notes of revenge, have notes of violence, we'll have notes, like, emotional sprinkles in there, and see what we get. And it was a draw.
Netta (44:27)
you're right that bottom line, if you don't like a bloody action revenge movie, you're not gonna like this. And if you do like a bloody action revenge movie, you will like this. yeah,
Steph (44:31)
No, you're not gonna like this.
And there's more and there's depth. had in my notes, there's depth to it, which is nice.
Like you know, last time we were joking about tight movies and all that's got to be a tight movie. To me, this movie was a very tight movie. It was it was very little dialogue. It was like told through movement, through scenery.
Netta (44:50)
Mmm.
Steph (44:58)
through story, through music, ⁓ and still so well, they took this very, very simple story, left it simple and did it fabulously, is what I think.
Netta (45:00)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah,
yeah, I think we both have ⁓ similar tastes in that. Like, I think we both really like genre movies that do the genre, but then do something a bit different with it.
Steph (45:20)
Hmm... the genre?
Yeah,
like a little. Yeah, agreed. And. Yeah, there was like we talked about, there's like a few different things that have been done here, like the setting and the music and stuff like that. Not the music necessarily, but the setting. But I was going to say this the doing something different.
Netta (45:27)
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah.
Steph (45:43)
Let's just talk about the stylizedness or lack of for this movie. Like, do you remember I said I wanted like a very like stylized action movie? I will say that.
Netta (45:47)
Mmm.
Steph (45:52)
I'm not disappointed. It wasn't as stylized as I thought it would be in the way I thought it would be for 90 % of it. I thought like, I feel like based on like the trailer and what I've heard, it would be colorized and like all those like different tricks and whatever. And it wasn't in those ways. And I don't care. Like it was fine. It was still great. It just wasn't like.
Netta (45:59)
Mmm.
Hmm.
Steph (46:16)
until the end, right? Like, I think what I had stuck in my mind is that vision of him on the elevator with the red backing. And that's like what really came to mind is the stylized nature. But when you finally get that, it's so satisfying and everything really, it still felt juicy and colorful and bright and like dark.
Netta (46:22)
Mmm, yeah.
I think that there were certain sets that had that. So when you went back to the set, like every time you were in that location, it had that. the place where he has the confrontation with the chief of police. ⁓
Steph (46:40)
Mm-hmm.
Netta (46:51)
and
there's a scene earlier in the movie that takes place there. And it similarly, it has that bisexual lighting going on that we talked about with Atomic Blonde. And it had that the first time and it had it the second time. And the ballroom similarly had like a kind of, I guess it was actually more stylized the second time when you're there for the big fight. ⁓ But yeah.
Steph (46:56)
Hmm.
Y'all.
Yeah. Yes, with the
the shot of the bar and the color coming through the backlit and then he's backlit. Yeah.
Netta (47:17)
Yeah, yeah,
when you think about like Atomic Blonde where it really is like every scene is highly stylized. This one, it's not every scene. it's very punchy when it does happen. And I think that it's almost like the places where it does happen.
Steph (47:24)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Netta (47:35)
namely in the hotel and like upstairs in the hotel. It's like, these are the kind of.
Steph (47:38)
Mm-hmm.
Netta (47:40)
this is where the elite are. This is the kind of this place of like artifice and sin and like debauchery and like power and blah blah And so the same way that ⁓ that shaky cam like you said at the beginning it's you've got a shaky cam on the fight and in the latter half it's you don't.
Steph (47:43)
Mm-hmm.
Yes. Ooh.
You don't, yeah.
Netta (48:02)
and it kind of makes a distinction between his fighting ability and his fighting styles. You know, maybe that kind of more stylized thing of it kind of makes a distinction between almost like the real world of like most people and his world. And then this kind of like crazy, you know, elite debauched world of these elites.
Steph (48:06)
Hmm.
Yes, I was-
Yeah, I know. Yes. And when you're
Netta (48:24)
Oh, I just have a note that...
The dog, the thing with the dog and how he uses the dog to bring the gun in. ⁓ Was that like a John Wick thing, do you think? Was that a John Wick reference?
Steph (48:31)
my god! Yeah!
Sean did say like, my God, if someone kills this dog, this very clean dog, well behaved dog. ⁓ I don't know. Maybe I feel like a lot of like action movies like Dog is Man Best Man's Best Friend is like such a thing. think Depp is a character had nobody and he found solace in this. And like just the woman was kind of like there was a little like foreshadowing there, like where the woman comes out was like, don't feed him. He'll come back for more.
Netta (48:43)
Bye! ⁓
Yeah.
Steph (49:06)
like that whole like foreshadowing for then Dev Patel to like, you know, to continue in his quest. Like I just, didn't think too much about, ⁓ John, like, my God, if someone kills us, I'm out.
Netta (49:06)
Mmm.
Yeah. ⁓
⁓ Also, I think, OK, some of the things that were happening in the fight scenes totally I'm veering completely. But like, we're quite funny.
Steph (49:29)
Yes.
Mm-hmm.
Netta (49:33)
Like when he's about to kill a guy or like in one of the earlier fight scenes where he's not as good and he's kind of like, he's clearly he's behind a guy and he would like to basically use the handcuffs that are on him to like choke him and kill him. But instead his handcuffs end up in the guy's mouth. And it's like, it's still quite disabling for the guy he's attacking, but like it's not.
Steph (49:50)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Netta (50:00)
It's not what he wants to be doing. And then he ends up basically saved ⁓ by the police who are trying to kill him, but end up killing the guy that he's got that, you know, who's, yeah, yeah. It's like, I don't know. I feel like it like it knows these tropes so well. And then it just kind of like does something different with them. Like he gets saved by the people who are trying to kill him kind of a thing.
Steph (50:10)
Meat shield.
I know.
Yeah, there was. Yes,
yes, and I think there was a couple of little funny moments, too, in the fight scene in the kitchen. It's like so fast, so fast, so fast. And then it's slow and then he tosses the jug at somebody. Do you remember that? It's like this subtle little thing like everything just stops for a second. He just like chucks a jug. But then the guy like catches it and then everything kicks off again. Like there's just like it's fun. There's like a tempo to it and of tongue in cheek.
Netta (50:31)
Mmm.
⁓ yeah.
Yeah. ⁓
Steph (50:49)
Like I know earlier in the movie, earlier in our talk, I was going to say like, there's some funny things about this movie. Like I can't necessarily be like, this line or blah, blah, blah. But like just it was entertaining. Like it was funny. Like kind of not a hop, but like, I know I just said not haha, but haha. Like just like interesting, entertaining ⁓ fun, I guess. ⁓
Netta (50:55)
Yeah, yeah.
Yes, yes, yes, yeah. Yeah, like,
Mm.
Steph (51:17)
Yeah, on the on the note of the fight scenes, too, I was going to just say like. There's a little part of me, a very little part of me that is somewhat very little critical of this idea that he was such a he was he was an apt. want to believe he was an apt fighter because he does these wrestling matches and whatever. And we see him kind of stumbling through the fights in the first half of the movie because he just he's like emotionally wrought and he doesn't know what to do and blah, blah.
Netta (51:19)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Steph (51:44)
And I want to believe he then trains and harnesses all those skills to then become extremely proficient. But I will say that he does become extremely proficient. so I'm just the leap there for me. But I'm also trying to believe, I don't think we like those rest. The wrestling is fixed, right? Like it's fixed. And so I think he's far more skilled than we're seeing. In the beginning of the movie.
Netta (51:53)
Mm.
Yeah.
Well,
yeah, this is what I wasn't sure of. Like, I thought what might happen is you see him, you know, lose these fights ⁓ at this like, you know, rigged kind of boxing or MMA kind of fights. ⁓ And I thought that the first time he tries to kill like the chief of police and go after who he's going after, I thought, okay, now we're going to see what he's really made of.
Steph (52:14)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Netta (52:36)
And you do see more because I mean, those are still, you know, action sequences. He's still fighting, but he loses those fights. ⁓ yeah. But it's so much of it is mental. I mean, he has the gun against the guy's head and he just can't shoot. Yeah. So I think that what I can believe, I think it is like kind of a leap from what we've
Steph (52:38)
Yeah.
Mm Yeah. Yeah, he's a big guy.
Yeah, think so. Yeah. Yeah, you're right.
Netta (53:02)
see of him in the first half to what we see of him in the second half in terms of his fighting ability. I think that's made up for a little bit by the idea that his training is at least as much about his like mental fortitude.
Steph (53:15)
Yes,
I agree. And maybe a long time has passed in the training. We don't know. We just don't see him. And this is too far down, some and somebody who knows nothing about fighting martial arts. But like, he just seems so proficient at like the hand to hand combat. And that was not part of his training montage that we saw like this, the sparring. And so but then I thought he was going to go back to that that ring, the boxing ring and train.
Netta (53:21)
Yeah.
Yes, yeah, that's true.
Steph (53:44)
against those guys. And that's how he was going to hone some things, but no. Anyway, so I do not want to have this be a critical point of the film because I loved it so much.
Netta (53:45)
⁓
No. Yeah, I...
But I think it is a good point because I think what's going on there is that it is more of a emotional spiritual kind of training, like even that thing of the drums that are used. And I'm sure they're not called drums. But like ⁓ the instrument that's used, the music. But the instrument that's used, ⁓ like the one of the women in the temple.
Steph (54:02)
Yes, I think so. Yes.
I love that! No.
The music. The music, yeah.
Netta (54:22)
is kind of like beating this drum as he punches the peg and it kind of guides him and he develops a rhythm. And earlier we see in a different context, the same person beating that drum. I'm just gonna call it a drum. Beating that drum and you find out that like one of the ⁓ pieces of it is like sort of the male voice and the other is the female and.
Steph (54:24)
Mm hmm. Yeah, yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
Netta (54:48)
So you kind of have this thing where like these two parts are being synchronized and he's synchronizing them within himself in order to get there. But of course also there's, ⁓ we also find out earlier I think from the same person that like, male and female also correspond to like male and female deities in Hinduism, dah, dah, dah, dah, dah. It's also, I think it is kind of a spiritual.
Steph (54:52)
Hmm.
Yes.
Mm-hmm.
Netta (55:11)
revival or kind of a spiritual strengthening that is going on where he is becoming, you know, he's kind of coming into his self as the embodiment of this like deity and to kind of fulfill what ⁓ what he did. Yeah. Yeah. Yes.
Steph (55:15)
Hmm.
Yes. In control to control his movements and like understanding
his movements and like being more thoughtful and intentional about them. yeah. Great.
Netta (55:35)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But
yeah. Cool. my God, I feel like there's so much in this movie.
Steph (55:38)
Yeah!
I feel like you're bringing so
many things to the table and like, why did I miss all of this? I like the fighting.
Netta (55:47)
No, but I also, I also
am like so like, just feel like I can see the hints of what is being alluded to. Like I can see like the broad categories of what's being alluded to and none of the specifics.
Steph (56:02)
like we said, like that's a really good marker of a great movie that you want to watch again. Like I think like this time I wanted to go in watching a certain thing and I paid attention to that certain thing. Next time I will pay attention to something else and something else. I don't like a lot of the movies we've watched before. It's like, yeah, I'd watch them again. Like I'm a big movie rewatcher. A lot of movies we watched are movies we've already seen. This is one that I'm like, like this will become part of my regular viewing because there's so much
Netta (56:05)
Yeah. Yeah.
Mm, yeah.
Steph (56:30)
good stuff happening here. And it's paced well. It flows well. Right? Like there's no big lulls. Like there's stuff happening. Excellent.
Netta (56:35)
⁓ yeah.
Yeah, great movie, great choice. So good.
Steph (56:44)
Love it. Excellent.
I know.
Netta (56:48)
Anyway, what's what do you feel like watching next? No, but I have to choose and I have to take into account, but just like generally, what are you?
Steph (56:48)
Okay.
What do you feel like watching next?
I know you have to choose.
know.
I feel
like that was a great, like every now and then we have these movies that they just hit a need so well, but I feel very open to anything now.
Netta (57:06)
Mm-hmm.
Netta (57:19)
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