Intolerable Cruelty (2003)
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Transcript
Netta (00:00)
the public declaration of love is like a big thing in rom-coms that I hate. I hate in every rom-com. I find it so awkward. It's awful. hate it.
Steph (00:02)
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Netta (00:17)
Hello and welcome to Popcorn Moms, the podcast for parents who love their kids most but loved movies first. For your cohost, Netta.
Steph (00:27)
and Stephanie, two movie lovers turned moms, join us as we reconnect with the things that make us whole outside of parenthood, namely watching movies. Today's movie is Intolerable Cruelty. It's a 2003 American romantic comedy film directed, co-written, and edited by Joel and Ethan Coen, starring George Clooney, Catherine Zeta-Jones, and a whole bunch more people. It follows Miles, a high profile divorce
lawyer who wins a case for his rich but adulterous client, Rex Rexroth. But Rex's ex-wife, Marilyn, who's no saint and is a gold digger, plots to take revenge on Miles, setting up an elaborate scheme to win and break his heart. This was Netta's pick, so why did you choose this movie, Netta?
Netta (01:12)
like no particular reason in this case. I could, I could tell you the whole kind of winding thing of how I got here, but it's so uninteresting.
Steph (01:20)
Yeah.
Netta (01:21)
I Googled movies like 30 Rock. really came up that I thought matched 30 Rock energy, but. ⁓
Steph (01:24)
⁓ interesting.
Mmm.
Mm-hmm, okay.
Netta (01:31)
I think Hail Caesar, one of like a different Coen Brothers movies came up and I didn't really want to watch that, but I was kind of like, oh, Coen Brothers, da da dum. And then I started looking at their movies. And then I know I came across this one, which is one that like I've wanted to watch. It hasn't ever been high on my list.
Steph (01:33)
Mmm. Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm, same.
Netta (01:51)
But I don't know, feel like we haven't, well, since we started the podcast anyway, we haven't done a rom-com. And I just thought it was kind of interesting, like, what are the Coen brothers take on a rom-com, I guess. I really like Catherine Zeta-Jones.
Steph (02:04)
Yes!
Mm-hmm.
Netta (02:09)
Watching something I haven't watched before is always a plus. so this is a long roundabout way of saying.
Steph (02:12)
Yeah.
Netta (02:16)
No particular reason. It just kind of what came up.
Steph (02:17)
You
And did you like it?
Netta (02:22)
I did like it, yeah, I liked it. wasn't, you know, I think it's, was a movie I enjoyed, is how I would put it, I guess. What about you? How did you?
Steph (02:29)
Okay.
I loved it.
Netta (02:34)
Really?
Steph (02:36)
I absolutely fucking loved this movie and they shocked myself in loving it so much. I hate rom-coms. Hate them. For certain reasons. This had none of those things. This is not a rom-com at all. I had always seen like the cover, like, you know, the poster cover where George Clooney and Katharine J. Jones are like looking at each other knowingly. And it was always like, ugh, God.
Netta (02:42)
Wow, okay.
Yeah.
Hehehehehe
Steph (03:03)
But I do not want to
this movie, but like I'm curious, but I don't because it's famous and it's a Coen Brothers film. And then when you suggested it, I was like, yeah, you know what? A risk. I'm here for it. Let's do rom com because we've never done it. And then I can like pop off about rom coms. And then I started watching. I'm like, this is no rom com. Like the first three minutes and I'm like, this movie is awesome. I.
Netta (03:24)
Hehehehehe
Steph (03:28)
Loved it. My mind was blown. I cannot express this enough The style of humor that this is. It.
man. I have so much to say. have so much to But it was your pick. I feel like you were like tepid. You're like, yeah, it's good.
Netta (03:38)
Okay. Okay, Stardust? No.
No, no, I enjoyed it. wasn't my favorite anything. Like I did not love it. ⁓ But I can absolutely see why someone
Steph (03:51)
Yeah. Yeah.
Netta (03:57)
I think to me it lacked maybe a bit of heart. into,
Steph (04:00)
I loved that.
I was begging for this not to be a typical rom-com when I started it. And when it became so silly, I was so there for it. But you wanted something more kind of like emotionally weighty.
Netta (04:13)
don't I think it was the parts in Vegas.
like a chunk of the movie that takes place in Vegas, kind of in the second half, nearer to the end, when effectively she seduces him in this very roundabout, deceitful way, let us say. ⁓
Steph (04:26)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Netta (04:33)
but he's like head over heels in love with her. mean, there's no question about that. And I don't know, I think at that point, they just, the absurdity of their situation or their characters being so absurd or so silly, I think if they had dialed it back a little bit and let it feel like there was some,
Steph (04:37)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Netta (04:56)
real emotion. I think the emotional aspect of it would have felt more real and more forefronted rather than the silliness of it. ⁓ And I think that that might have helped it feel like what was at stake was really at stake as opposed to what was at stake is silly. It is silly. Romcoms are silly. That's fair. But ⁓
Steph (05:03)
you
Netta (05:20)
Okay, let's let's talk about what we did. Like, what I want to hear your notes. What are you? What do you want to talk about with this movie? What what what about it?
Steph (05:30)
Well, because the silliness, I want to talk about the silliness, because like, what is this genre of movie? I don't know what this is because like there's there was several points of the movie where I feel like it could have definitely gone the typical rom-com route. Even the example you just gave, like when they're in Vegas and when she seduces him and if they had thrown in a level of emotion there, it could have gone in the direction of like typical rom-com.
I thought too, they were gonna set it up like they would become adversaries, the typical like, I hate you, I hate you. And then at the end, be like, no, I love you. But they didn't do that either. I just feel like all the typical rom-com tropes, they didn't do any of them. And where it went was just so strange. It just kept getting so strange and kind of the ongoing joke of ripping up the prenups just became so silly.
Netta (06:22)
Yeah
Steph (06:24)
but like so funny. So I was like, okay, like, Coen Brothers, like, we've watched some movies before and it's like, what is this genre? And Coen Brothers, like, you know I'm a big fan of directors, writers, whatever that really have a style. And I feel like when I look through their IMDB, the other movies that pop out immediately like, oh, I've seen these a million times are Burn After Reading and Fargo.
Netta (06:46)
Mm.
Yeah.
Steph (06:47)
What genres are these along with this movie? Like they're very silly. They're very obscure. Like what is the point? I don't know. They're just like
Netta (06:57)
just because of what you said sparked a few things. First of all, this thing of it being a romantic comedy, what you said just made me kind of think about this, which is that it is a very funny movie and it is a, with a romance at its, about a romance.
Steph (07:05)
Mm.
Yeah. Romantic. Yes.
Yes, that's fair.
Netta (07:12)
And I think maybe
one of the things that the Coen brothers did with this movie was take this thing of a romantic comedy.
Steph (07:21)
Mm-hmm.
Netta (07:21)
without being bound by, but kind of took these two, or kind of took it as like two different things. So they made a comedy and they could kind of go in various directions. So they took it in a kind of absurdist, silly direction and they have their romance and they could take it in, know, the kind of the romance of people who are on opposite sides of a line, but who are really into each other.
Steph (07:34)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Netta (07:51)
And by treating those as kind of two separate things, they're maybe less bound by the requirements of a romantic comedy. Right? So they, yeah. So they could make a comedy and they could, and comedies can be, it's such a broad thing. There's like physical comedy, there's satire, there's this and that, like there's, they could kind of do whatever kind of comedy they wanted.
Steph (08:01)
Yeah, like the expectations. Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Yes.
Netta (08:15)
and they could kind of do whatever type of romance they wanted. And so maybe that's part of why it feels very fresh because it is a romantic comedy, but not a rom-com per se. But at the same time, they do take a lot of the beats or a lot of the tropes of a rom-com, but do something a bit different with it. Like the thing that I do absolutely love about this movie is that the...
Steph (08:18)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yes.
Hmm.
Netta (08:41)
Like the public declaration of love is like a big thing in rom-coms that I hate. I hate in every rom-com. I find it so awkward. It's awful. It's so contrived. is the worst part of it. Just consistently, just a terrible part of rom-coms. I hate it.
Steph (08:44)
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Netta (09:01)
And so there's like one other movie that I can think of, like one rom-com I can think of.
Steph (09:02)
Hehehe.
Netta (09:09)
that does it in a way that I don't hate, which is what's your number? And I really like that rom-com. And this one, because it's like the public declaration of love is basically his keynote speech at this convention. It's not addressed to her, she's not even there, it's not that awkward. I was just so grateful. I was so grateful that they didn't impose this like,
Steph (09:14)
Mm-hmm.
Yes. Yes.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Hahaha
Netta (09:35)
horrible, horrible public declaration of love on us. ⁓ But just like, but they still had it, right? They have a love thesis. Like they have him saying, what is love according to this movie? But like, again, it's in a way that's like, in this public declaration, that is not at all what it usually would be in a rom-com.
Steph (09:43)
Yes, they did.
Mm-hmm.
Yes. And on that note, like I completely agree with you with regards to like, think the brilliance of the Coen brothers is that they take something or two genres and they like really let go of like the rules of those genres and they combine things and they make them silly or they throw in things that are a bit absurd, but it kind of mixes it up and makes it feel fresh. But that scene, you're right. What I, that's a really good example of what I was saying around how like it can go a certain way and then
or you think it'll go a certain way and then it goes a different way. So like he makes his public declaration that's very at odds with what he has stood for in his career. And so this is me thinking like, she's trying to ruin his career and he's going to go give this speech and then everyone's going to boo him and it's going to be like a whole thing or he's going to give this speech and she's going to be like, my God, he really loves me. And then they're going to off together. No, he gives a speech and everyone's hooting and hollering and cheering. And then he has this
Like, I'm the bad, like, he just is so happy and he's celebrating and it's so it's like what? And so it just it goes in this very different direction. And she doesn't even know that the speech has occurred. To your point.
Netta (10:53)
Hehehehehe ⁓
You
Mm. Yeah, me too.
Also, okay, the other thing about this movie, just to what you were saying before, is that like, it's so not grounded in terms of like, just like, the way divorce proceedings happen, or, or marriages or anything like.
Steph (11:14)
Mm-hmm.
Insanity? I know, I know, it's so insane!
Netta (11:22)
It just, you know, like the idea of these, ⁓ even that scene with these lawyers, like the idea that all divorce lawyers are like very cynical and the idea that love is good is so alien to these divorce lawyers is like, I mean, it's all a bit silly. I mean, it really is all a bit silly. But again, I think that that plays off of how absurd most rom-com worlds are, right?
Steph (11:31)
Yeah.
Yes, yes.
Yes. Yes. Yes.
Netta (11:51)
Just the whole world
of rom-coms, like the workplace situations that they're in, the way that relationships work, the way anything works in rom-coms for the most part is like absolutely ridiculous. And like, I think that this movie leans into that.
Steph (11:56)
UGH
Yes!
Hmm.
Netta (12:09)
And that I think is part of what, like I think that's kind of the pulse of this movie is just like leaning into the absurdity of ⁓ RomCom world.
Steph (12:16)
Yeah,
Yeah, like taking all of those little things and like dialing them up, like amping them up, like, yeah, like, divorce lawyer so mean, it's like, let's let's dial that up and make them crazy
I just like it so much like when the couple is fighting like Jeffrey Rush and his wife and get shot and he's taking pictures and then it's actually George Clooney's character is defending the wife.
And like she wins. It's like this like there's no way that that should happen. I don't know I'm trying to say, but it's just like it's so silly, like setting up these characters. Then we find Jeffrey, Russian and Ali like it's just so extreme. To illustrate, I guess the point like that George Clooney is like a good lawyer. And like amp up that reputation.
Netta (12:53)
Mm-hmm.
You know, to your question about like the genre or maybe not the genre, but like the style, like what is the style? It's almost like there's a bit of a childishness to it in that extremity, right? The idea that like, you know, ⁓ he gets his wife, sleeps with the pool boy or the pool man.
Steph (13:09)
What is this?
Yes! Yes!
And they don't even have a pool! I was dead. I was
killing myself laughing.
Netta (13:29)
And then he's like, Jeffrey Rush ends up homeless in an alley, just looking like the most caricaturish version of a homeless person, just sleeping with his Emmy or his whatever, his award. And she just got, there's a kind of a childishness, I think, to this, like in a good way.
Steph (13:37)
cartoonish. Yes. Yep.
Yeah, he's like watching it.
Yes.
Yes, I think the way I think that's like these movies that we're talking about like that are a bit of this a bit of that like it's very charming in the way it comes across like it's done very well. It's done very clever. It's like just enough like even the the group of the wives like the ex wives like they're so like this one's got the Botox and this one's got the this and they're laughing about the money and how many husbands like it's so extreme.
And how many houses can you take and how many pools do you have and the gardeners and yeah, it's like taking it to a level that's like this is in movies and now we're going to color it more vibrantly and make it more silly and poke fun at those elements, which is very enjoyable.
Netta (14:32)
Mmm, yes.
Does it from,
does it remind you a little bit of Tim Burton? Like if the Coen brothers crank it up to 11, like Tim Burton cranks it up to 20.
Steph (14:49)
What? Okay. Interesting. Go on.
Netta (14:52)
I don't know. Okay, I'm just thinking about this just now, because what you were talking about in terms of like the vibrancy and like that scene of them at the poolside, like of the all of these gold diggers at the poolside talking about their husbands, their ex-husbands, soon to be ex-husbands, their botox, their whatever, and just kind of their inane lives. just when I conjure up that the image of that,
Steph (14:54)
I can't
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Yes. ⁓
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Netta (15:19)
It does sort of remind me of a Tim Burton type of scene with like lots of kind of poppy colors, a type of composition with a lot of people or like with, I don't know, I don't know. Let me think, like the composition of these people who all kind of look the same with your one character that really stands out in this case, Catherine Zeta Jones.
Steph (15:37)
I I feel like you're...
Netta (15:47)
⁓ the kind of like, ⁓ I don't know, eighties, doll, a doll house type of look.
Steph (15:54)
feel like.
Netta (15:59)
Is this totally out of nowhere? What?
Steph (16:01)
You have
just described Edward Scissorhands. Like perfectly. Yeah, like this one person's completely out of place from this suburban cookie cutter like moment. I feel like I wouldn't say. Coen brother movies and like Tim Burton movies like turn things up in the same way, I think.
Netta (16:04)
No, no, I know, that's what I'm thinking about.
Steph (16:23)
like each have their own unique and distinct styles. think Coen brothers take different genres and merge them together and like dial up the tropes and make it interesting. That way, think Tim Burton has a very artistic style and that like he takes very he makes very stylistic choices to make things look different and to make things look maybe like cartoony at times, like in a good way. Like if, you know, ⁓ like Batman Returns is one of my favorite movies.
Netta (16:39)
Yes.
Steph (16:50)
I wouldn't put them in the same category, but I feel like I know what you're trying to say and like they both do unique things.
Netta (16:55)
I think that there's maybe, like, I think there are certain elements that they both dial up to different extents. And then there are other ways that like Tim Burton and the Coen brothers are very different. Don't get me wrong. I don't think it's like, I don't think they're on like one spectrum at different points of the same spectrum, but I think it's like a Venn diagram. Like there is overlap, I guess.
Steph (17:01)
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yes.
No. ⁓
Yeah, it's like,
I know, if you, They're both playing with that dial in the same way to see like what, like how far can they push certain things? Like it just looks at my notes and I was.
Netta (17:22)
Mm-hmm.
Steph (17:28)
thinking about the scene in the courtroom ⁓ when I think about who was on the stand, that guy, that von Beren guy is on the stand. Yeah, and he spills everything about Catherine Zena-Jones and how she met her husband and he attacks ⁓ him on the stand and the lawyer's like, objection, strangling and the judge is like, I'll allow it because she said, I'll allow it.
Netta (17:39)
Yeah, they're really ridiculous.
Yes.
Steph (17:56)
so many times like what is going on like it's just so silly and cartoony in a way
Netta (18:01)
You know what, I think some of it is just the, there's a kind of visual sense going on that I think sometimes this is more pronounced than others in intolerable cruelty, like that courtroom scene or the poolside scene where you have a feeling that this is ⁓ like an, like it is made to feel like this is on a stage.
Steph (18:08)
Mm-hmm.
Hmm
Netta (18:25)
in a way, or this is happening in a box, in an artificial kind of environment. like, I think there's, yeah, whereas there's other parts of intolerable cruelty that are not like that. But I think Tim Burton's is like so much more of Tim Burton's movies and scenes are like that. So maybe it's just that element and that feeling that like, yeah.
Steph (18:25)
Yes! Yes!
Silly ball.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah. Yeah. Is that style. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, like there's certain scenes, you're right, like there's certain scenes in Intolerable Cruelty that I could see it playing out, like on a little stage and being very dramatic. Like even the way, like George Clooney's character as a divorce lawyer talks in the first scene that we meet him, it is so insane. Like the way he talks, like nobody talks like this, but it's like...
Netta (19:10)
Yeah.
Steph (19:14)
so fun and like the like fodder of like a very silly stage play like and the way it's shot and stuff and the way he sits behind his desk and the way he like muses to himself. ⁓ God, it's so funny.
Netta (19:20)
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Steph (19:30)
I don't know. It was
just, it was so funny. And the way he talks, like his character in general, that's what I was meaning earlier, but like the characters are strong. Like the way he talks about himself or about things and like goes on and on. Like when he's like hired, like it's just so silly. Like Wheezy Joe, how is that something that is thought about? you know what I mean? Like I feel like.
Netta (19:51)
I
Steph (19:54)
The Coen brothers, they they pick these movies and it's like, hey, here's the situation. How can we make this very like how can this be more obscure? How can this be weird? Like, OK, there's a hit man. Why don't we give him asthma and make him very wheezy? And then it will actually like really play into how that unfolds. any sorry, when George Clooney finds out like she's actually rich and he wants to call off the hit and he's like musing, she's like, she's rich, she's rich and I love her. I don't need to kill her. I don't need to kill her. Let's go. Like, it's just like who?
talks like that, you know, it's so silly. then just on the note of The flavors of absurdity that I love, I love this so much, I have to mention it is when they're in that courtroom scene again, it's the earlier case, though, ⁓ Unrelated to the movie's plot that George Clooney and his partner are like in that case, and they're talking about the husband.
Netta (20:24)
Yeah.
Mm.
Steph (20:47)
and he made sex toy prototypes out of the vacuum cleaner. And then the lawyer's like, and how did that make you feel? And she's like, well, it was a problem. I couldn't vacuum for a month. that is like what?
Netta (20:49)
Yes! Yeah!
Steph (20:59)
Like, it's just so bizarre, you know, and like, loved it.
Netta (21:01)
Yes. Yeah.
Yeah.
think that there's an element of this which is that it kind of like lacks any sentimentality, if that makes sense.
Steph (21:13)
Yes!
Yes, now to go on!
Netta (21:17)
It just kind of, like that's all I got. No, that was it. ⁓ It just kind of reminds me ⁓ like a little bit of ⁓ some of my favorite writers who also lack sentimentality in their writing. And as a result, their characters can say and act in ways or the narration can say things that
Steph (21:19)
You're like, no, that was the end of that thought.
Netta (21:43)
otherwise might be just a little bit out of bounds. It's not an edginess. It's not that it's like, it's not like, it's not edgelord kind of stuff. It's not being provocative per se, but it's just kind of like.
Steph (21:47)
Mmm. Yeah, because it's not edgy.
No. No.
Netta (21:59)
The, it's a, I don't wanna say on, like, it's not that being sentimental or having sentimentality makes you dishonest, but I think it explores, it allows you to say the part that you wouldn't say. I mean, obviously, the, you know, the issue with, you know, her husband making this sex story out of vacuum parts. Yeah, I mean, the main issue, ⁓ my God, yes.
Steph (22:14)
Mmm.
prototype out of vacuum parts. There's so many layers of problem, isn't it? The problems in that.
Netta (22:27)
I mean, the main issue there is that, you know, there's the sex toy she doesn't want to use and her husband's obsessed. But like, there is this kind of like secondary or tertiary problem, which is that she can't vacuum. And when you take the sentimentality out of it, you can say that. And it's very funny. ⁓ Yeah, I don't know. I think it also
Steph (22:36)
Yeah. Yes!
They're out of vacuums!
Yes. Yes.
Baby!
Netta (22:57)
kind of like it's a great introduction because that scene is very early on. It's like maybe the second or third scene. And it's a great introduction to this world, right? And to the kind of characters that you're gonna find because I think it's also maybe about establishing just like the type of characters that are...
Steph (23:07)
Yes.
The tone. Yeah.
Netta (23:21)
that populate this world of wealthy LA people. Like this is like, all his clients are quite wealthy and they're all like this kind of West Coast, blah, blah, blah. Like it's all very, ⁓ this is a little bit about how absurd rich people are, I think. It's also kind of a take down of that.
Steph (23:27)
Mm-hmm.
yes.
Yes, yes, it's like that exaggerated,
like silly, like this is how they are. Yeah.
Netta (23:46)
out of touch with reality. Like I think
this is also part of what makes it work is just kind of this innate sense that rich people are out of touch with reality and so it's okay for this movie to be a bit out of touch with reality.
Steph (23:56)
to be so silly.
Yes. Yes. Very much so. I agree. I'm just thinking about this idea of sentimentality and like...
the matter of factness of things. Like everything is just presented. Cause I'm thinking about like, like Fargo and I'm thinking about Burnout reading. Sorry. Those are my two most prominent like Conan brother movie references. They're the same. Like it's like, here's a story. It's almost like I'm going to open this door and here's the story you will watch. There's stuff before and there's stuff after, but here's like this, this picture that you're going to watch. And then you're going to close the door and walk away.
Netta (24:08)
Yes. Yes.
Yeah, yeah.
Yes. Yes.
Steph (24:33)
Like these are not like movies meant to make you cry, make you care deeply about these characters. They're just there and they're really entertaining and they do that really, really well. And I think it's you hit the nail on the head. think it's because like sentimentality of it is. It's about the characters. It's very character driven, but not in the way that like. You're meant to care deeply about them, you're just meant to be entertained by them.
Netta (24:49)
Hmm.
Steph (24:57)
Does that make sense?
Netta (24:57)
characters
yes I get okay say more about the characters
Steph (25:01)
Well, I think in this movie, as well as the other movies that they do, their characters are so strong. Like we've watched other movies and we've talked about other movies with characters and like, we like this character, we like this character. And like this character had a very clear vis or this. I think the characters in their movies, in this movie in particular, ⁓ as it is the one we are talking about, each character, it's like they have, they're very unique.
is what I'm trying to say, I guess. Like they're just such a character. Like they're, like we've talked about, they're, it's like, okay, this is how this character is going to be. And then we're going to like make it outlandish in this way. This is how this character is going to be. And then we're going to make it outlandish in this way. And each character is so singular and standalone. And it comes together to make this like very entertaining ensemble. Like even like,
Jeffrey Rush's character was probably in this movie for six minutes. Home run. that's like what a legend because of like how much of a character like I feel like I know this character. I know their backstory. I know where they're going. Like how do you do that in six minutes? You know what I mean? Like same with Cedric the entertainer. Like, can we like, ⁓ my God. It's just so ridiculous, but it like
Netta (25:58)
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah. Yep.
Steph (26:21)
I think to your point, because they operate, like, without some of the rules and bounds, like, these characters can be very unique and, a little more silly than they normally would be. Like, ⁓ this one character would be quirky, but, like, we can make them all quirky. Like, we can all, like, we can add a little extra to each of them. You know?
Netta (26:41)
Yeah, like one
of my favorite parts of this movie was ⁓ the lawyer that George Clooney works with and how he cries at weddings. He's like every wedding, he's just like blubbering. He's clearly such a romantic. I just I love that. And it's something where like, again, I think in like a more typical rom-com, you might get that. like with the kind of
Steph (26:50)
my god, he's the best.
Yeah! Balling! Yeah.
Netta (27:08)
cliche of it or with the kind of like with the sentimentality of it, it's treated more heavily. Whereas in this movie, it's just like, it's interesting, it's fun, it adds dimension.
Steph (27:09)
Yes.
Mm-hmm.
Hmm.
Mm-hmm, dimension.
Netta (27:23)
But you're not meant to, I think as an audience, you're kind of watching that and take, you're kind of delighted by it rather than, you're not meant to melt at it or like be like, ⁓ wow, he actually has more feelings than I thought he did. You're just like, my God, this guy has these feelings, that's great. How fun, how delightful.
Steph (27:43)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, like and he's like,
right? It is. It's delightful. It's like it's like something that's kitschy, but like charming, you know, like, you know how like. My mom would laugh at me. You know, some people have like flamingos on their lawn and it's like, oh, that's so tacky, but done in the right way. It's like, oh, that's cute. You know, like I feel like this movie is that like.
Netta (27:53)
Mm. Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yes, yep, yep, yep.
Steph (28:12)
all of these characters and like the way that they are has come together to make something very charming. Like even the way Catherine Zeta-Jones at times, she acts like this, like this alluring dance ball. And like, ⁓ But she's like actually very sly and smart. And like George Clooney, like is so taken by it. And he's like, I have to have this. Like, it's just so exaggerated and so fun. I don't know. All the characters are just. I don't know.
Netta (28:25)
Hehehehehe
Mm-hmm.
I think that that's
like, I think the flamingo thing is perfect actually. Cause I think that's what there is a sense of like tackiness. Like it's almost like it's like, yeah, we know rom-coms are tacky.
Steph (28:46)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, yes, yes, we know they're absurd. But what if we do? Yeah, like what if we make it fun and like lean in and like, OK, we're going to have the blubbering best friend, but it's actually going to be the lawyer that he maybe doesn't even like very much.
Netta (28:52)
But yeah, so let's lean into the absurdity. Yeah.
Yes, we're going to.
you know, like for all of the, for all of the ways that this kind of like undermines or goes against the like typical vomcom thing, it has a very typical take on love. Right? I mean, I think so. I mean, in the end it's saying
Steph (29:22)
Does it? Please explain.
Netta (29:29)
Like I think the love thesis is that love makes you vulnerable and love makes you exposed and it's worth it. And that's like what, that's like, that's, you know, a very normal rom-com message, I think, which is fine, which is fine. I mean, I almost feel like, like the Coen brothers were just like, ⁓
Steph (29:32)
Yes.
Mm-hmm. Yes, yes, I did.
Yes, it's true. I know, 90... Yeah.
Netta (29:52)
Like they believe in love, but they hate how rom-coms deliver the message about it or something.
Steph (29:55)
Yes, I think
you know what, Neda? I think that's probably why I love this movie so much. Because I fancy myself a little bit romantic. Like I, right? Yeah, I'm like, I'm like a huge romantic, but I fucking hate rom-coms because they're so ridiculous. There's like a handful that I enjoy because they're fun or cute, whatever, or it's a different story or they have atypical plot lines. But for the most part, it disgusts me.
Netta (30:04)
yeah you are. ⁓ yeah, you totally are.
Yeah.
Steph (30:22)
And which is so silly because I'm such a romantic, but this movie is so fun. And that's probably why I like it so much, because. It is like that at its essence, like a love story about being you're exposed every time. I was like, that's funny, but it's like. In the movie, that means like financially, but you can see through that and you can read into that as like they're actually bearing their hearts to each other. They're actually admitting like they actually want to be together and.
Like in the end, right?
Netta (30:51)
Do you think this is a romantic movie?
Steph (30:53)
No, Neda. Now I'm thinking, like, because I just... Is it a romantic movie? What is a romantic movie? Name a romantic movie.
Netta (31:00)
⁓ a room with a view.
Steph (31:02)
I've not seen it. What makes it what makes it because people have different. like people have different ideas about what romance is.
Netta (31:03)
It's very romantic. It takes place in Italy. So it's a romantic movie.
Okay, you know what's a romantic,
it's not a movie, but I swear to God, I think I've talked about this before. I think I've told you about this. It's a mini series, it was adapted from a book, it's called North and South. If you want, yeah, if you just want a four hour buildup to a kiss.
Steph (31:29)
Yeah, you've talked about this, I don't remember.
Yeah, you're talking! I remember when you talked about this.
Netta (31:38)
I swear to God, the
first time I watched that movie, the mini series, it was myself and two other friends, one of whom had seen it before. We watched it all kind of in one go and by yeah, and by the end of it, like by the last scene of the last episode, four hours in, all three of us were on the edge of the couch leaning in. I look over, we all have the same expression on our face. It was just, it's a very romantic.
Steph (31:48)
You must.
Netta (32:05)
I think that's a very romantic show. It's so good. ⁓ But I think that like, yeah, it's a good question. Like what makes something romantic? I don't know exactly.
Steph (32:07)
Okay.
I know. And when I think about
like, and this is like my idea, I don't want to say my idea of romance, cause that's not true. But the things that hit me when it comes to like romance and love are the tragic stories. Like that's what hits me. Like, Romeo and Juliet is romance. Like, but it's so silly cause it's like, no, that's not. But it's like, I think young impressionable me.
Netta (32:28)
Mmm.
Yeah.
Steph (32:41)
Like that's what I was exposed to. so romance is about like life and death and forsaking all others and.
Netta (32:50)
I think like one mainstay of a romantic, of a romance, like in books, like of a story, of a romance story is the sacrifice. Like one character has to make a sacrifice for the other. I think that's a mainstay, which is also kind of interesting the way they do it here because the sacrifice is a total sham.
Steph (32:52)
old-timiness.
Mm-hmm.
Yes, yes, there has to be a sacrifice. That's romantic.
I know.
Netta (33:15)
You know, she makes the gesture of like, you know, sacrificing her ⁓ financial security when really she's actually sacrificing his and he only realizes it later. ⁓ So that's kind of fun. ⁓ But I don't know, I think sacrifice does not speak to me very much when it comes to romance. I don't know why. think I just...
Steph (33:15)
Yeah, right? ⁓
There is. Yes. Yes.
Mm-hmm.
I think that's healthy.
Netta (33:43)
I think so. I think like
Steph (33:44)
I think that's a lot healthier of you. Oh, romance.
Netta (33:49)
that was not the message. That was not what I learned growing up.
Steph (33:53)
Good for
Netta (33:53)
And I often find the sacrifices part of movies just feel like a bit like sentimental, overly, like way overly sentimental and like just kind of like, guys, you probably could have found another way that worked for everyone. Like, ⁓ come on, guys. So I don't know. I don't know what makes something romantic to me. What makes a good
Steph (34:01)
Hmm
Yeah, right? Of course, of course. think...
Netta (34:18)
What makes a romance and is it in this movie?
Steph (34:20)
No, I know I'm trying to think like, what is that? I kind of want to Google like, what is the definition of romance? Just just for conversation fodder. What is romance? ⁓ It's a feeling of intense attraction, excitement and passion toward another person, often involving a desire for emotional and physical intimacy. So based on that, this movie is very romantic.
Netta (34:26)
⁓ I know. ⁓ Just to get us started, because we don't
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Steph (34:46)
Like I do think I really did on this idea of romance. think tension gets me too around romance. And I think there was a lot of really fun tension between George Clooney and Catherine Jada Jones, but not blame. There was something very funny. I think, you know what it was? It was that he was so overly open about it.
Netta (34:50)
Mm-hmm.
Mmm. Yeah.
Yes. Yes. Yes.
Steph (35:09)
That was really fun and romantic.
Like it wasn't this like, does he like me? Does she like me? He was like, you intrigued me. And she was like, Ooh. And then the next time it's like, Oh, I can't get enough of you. And she's like, Ah, like, it's just so. Like, I like that. I like that tension.
Netta (35:24)
Yes, that's, that is, that
is another thing that I think is hard with rom-coms for them to get right. That often leaves me, like that often just falls flat is the source of tension. Yeah. That's why, like, that was one of the great things about Obvious Child is that the tension was like, there was something very real standing between them.
Steph (35:37)
Furious. It makes me furious.
Yes!
Mm-hmm.
Netta (35:50)
and the tension,
like there was something both external and internal standing between them. And they were both very real and reasonable things. So it was like, that was a rom-com. That was definitely billed as a rom-com. I think it was romantic.
Steph (35:58)
Was that a romantic movie?
Netta (36:04)
I guess maybe what makes a romance is like overcoming obstacles to be with each other. That sounds so lame though. That's such a lame way to, overcoming obstacles. God, you could put that on like one of those awful like office posters with like a picture of a crane or something.
Steph (36:04)
I agree.
I know, I was gonna say, I know.
Yeah. So the definition of give.
I'd be like, uh-huh. So the definition I gave
was the AI overview.
Netta (36:24)
Yeah
Steph (36:24)
⁓ The Oxford definition I'm seeing here, which is exactly what we kind of just described around like tension and mystery and what that is a feeling of excitement and mystery associated with love. And that is romance. And it's interesting because I'm thinking about like how I conceptualize romance is like. The sacrifice, the like grandness of things and like the loss, the tragedy.
Netta (36:26)
Woo!
Hmm.
Steph (36:51)
or the tension and that's that right? It's mystery is will this happen or not because of something dramatic, something wild, something forlorn, something forbidden, so sexy.
Netta (37:00)
I think, you
know what, what really resonated with me with what you just said was the grandness. Because I think that that's something that like, when you're falling in love, it feels so big, right? I think there is something about like the grandness of it all. And maybe that comes from tension.
Steph (37:09)
Yes.
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.
Yes, for sure.
Netta (37:24)
Maybe that comes from uncertainty, maybe that comes from mystery, maybe
Steph (37:26)
Maybe a sacrifice. Yes.
Netta (37:29)
that comes from surprise, maybe that comes from, like that can come from many different places. But I think this kind of feeling of that this is grand.
Steph (37:31)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Netta (37:40)
Maybe that's what this movie lacked for me a little bit. I mean, it was there. I think his awe of her was kind of was part of it. think her whole personality, his whole personality, like just huge, like you're saying these characters, like big characters. But I think maybe the silliness undercut the grandness of it for me.
Steph (37:46)
Hmm
Yeah, it's all very big.
And it's so interesting because like, was just thinking like how everything in this movie is so big, right? Like settings, the characters, this, and then at the core, there's actually this like really simple love story kind of built on admiration. And like, I love that. Yeah, like I, I love that. And I guess I don't, like, I was so happy that the tension was made silly and fake and weird because it's,
Netta (38:12)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Which I love. I do love that.
Mmm, yeah.
Steph (38:28)
It didn't really like, I'm saying it didn't have a place, like, I don't know. I'm trying to think about this movie, a version of this movie where it's not silly and like, what is there and is that romantic? And I think it is, cause you're right at the end of the day, whether being exposed means like financially this, that, the other, like they were people who were all about financial security and wealth and power. Like that's who they were and independence. And to say, I don't care about that anymore.
Netta (38:51)
independence, yeah.
Steph (38:56)
via not wanting pre-up, like that is, that's huge. It's like saying like, I will be a different version of myself for you because you've changed me. And I love that.
Netta (39:06)
I do love, like when you describe that, I'm like, my God, that's so great. That is so romantic. But I think the silliness, I think there were just some moments when they could have dialed down the silliness just a little, not completely. I think some of the scenes in Vegas where they could have dialed it down just a little, and I would have felt that a lot more.
Steph (39:10)
No, right?
Like when?
Mmm.
Do you think?
Netta (39:32)
Instead,
it just felt like they were just making, like the movie is making fun of itself. And I think that that kind of like, on the one hand, I love that, but it also, there's only so much you can, like you have to dial that down. I think for me, I needed that to be a little bit less present. that like, there needed to be a little bit more earnestness, just a little, just a little bit more.
Steph (39:53)
Mm-hmm. Okay.
And for me, I like that they double down on it. Like, there's some movies we watch and they like double, like, The Substance is a great example. The third act of that movie, they double down and it's so insane, but it like, it works, right? Because what is left, and I think if they had...
Netta (39:57)
Yeah, that's fair.
Mmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it worked.
Steph (40:15)
Like there needed to be something different and like it kind of picks up in that last like third act in Vegas, like things get quicker and decisions get made faster and things are happening and things are moving. And I don't know, I like that they double down, but again, we've already discussed this because I don't love the typical stuff. And I think they still kind of like every time I thought they were going to go that way, they didn't right up until the end. And I love that so much when you're talking about dialing back the silliness, I was going to say.
Netta (40:23)
Yeah.
Hmm.
Steph (40:43)
You didn't think Billy Bob Thornton chewing up the prenup and dipping it in barbecue sauce? That's not the example you gave of something they could have made less silly. Right? was so good.
Netta (40:47)
Yeah
No, no, I loved that. That was great. That
was a great placement for that level of silliness. Perfect. I loved it. I loved it.
Steph (41:00)
Mmm. But this,
OK, you just made me have a thought, an epiphany. OK, the reason I one of the reasons I don't love like dramedies or rom-coms a lot of the time is because the front half is usually pretty fun and uplifting and silly. And then it gets more earnest and it gets serious in the back half. And there's something my brain can't process that I don't like. It makes me uncomfortable. And so I like that this movie went the other way.
Netta (41:20)
Mmm.
Steph (41:24)
Instead of getting more earnest and more serious and like, we're going to bring it down a notch and get heavy. It's like, this is going to get more silly.
Netta (41:31)
I'm talking, okay, I totally respect that, but I'm talking about literally like in three scenes, maybe five lines could have been said in a less silly way. That's all I'm talking about. That's all I'm talking about. Just to let it come through just a little, just so that that arc could feel, could be more felt as opposed to continuously made fun of. But I respect you for your love of it as it is.
Steph (41:41)
Nah. I feel like I know what I'm trying to.
I don't know.
I think it moved fast
and I liked it. Like I think, you know the part that hit me that was like maybe this is gonna go in it and like maybe they will find each other and I just love how they did it in such like a cute little way is when Catherine Zeta-Jones is sitting by the pool with her friend and it's like the friend is like, oh, just enjoy your pool. And she's like, do you think he's like it's those typical things. Do you think he's eating enough?
Netta (42:13)
Mm.
Yeah.
Steph (42:24)
You think this like it's and it's so silly like that that she says that but it shows that she's thinking differently about it and it's cute.
Netta (42:24)
Yeah.
And I needed that, I needed, I just like, I needed something maybe just in one of the scenes or two of the, like just a few lines when they interact. Like, I feel like it is very, like the dialogue in itself, that whole scene is pretty silly. But the way she says that does not amplify the silliness of it. I think this is like, ⁓
Steph (42:36)
You just want it a little more?
No
Mmhmm.
Netta (43:00)
I think this is very much an issue of performance and the direction maybe that the performance was given. Like, it's not like I don't need the script to be different. I don't need the plot to be different. Just the way that it's delivered. Yeah, just the way that it's delivered to just drop some of the sarcasm. So that the feeling of it, like the earnest feeling of love and admiration.
Steph (43:04)
Okay, interesting. Yeah. Yeah.
⁓ just the way it's like illustrated to us.
Mmm.
Netta (43:28)
or of admiration and obsession, whatever it is, could come through for George Clooney's character because we do have that moment for her. I feel like I needed something like that.
Steph (43:36)
Hmm.
His is the speech. Like he does have his big speech. He goes back to the room ready to shed it all. And like, that's his moment. ⁓
Netta (43:46)
Yeah, yeah, maybe that's true. But neither of
them have a moment like that with each other. I think there needed to be a moment where each of them shed it for like literally one or two lines with each other.
Steph (43:53)
What do think?
Hmm, but that's
Netta (44:00)
They're just like, no.
Steph (44:01)
No, just don't think but that's like when they. No, as my daughter would say, no, no, no, no, no.
Netta (44:03)
As my daughter would say, nah-uh.
Steph (44:09)
Cool. No. I'm just trying to think when they're in the boardroom at the end and they do. I'm trying to think where do they. Make up is it in the boardroom at the end? Yeah, like yeah, like I like that. Yeah, like I like that it gets to that point and they haven't had some like private aside. ⁓ I was gonna say if we're talking about the things that are absurd, I'm here for it. Do not get me wrong.
Netta (44:22)
Yeah, the boardroom, the divorce negotiations. Yeah.
Steph (44:37)
But if I had to admittedly say one thing that is silly, it's that they hire the hitman to go kill her. That is very silly. Like. But I'm also OK with it because it's funny. But it's like he loves her, but it's like he loves her, but he realized he's being played and he doesn't want to be played and he wants the money because he thinks he's being screwed. But as soon as he realizes, like later in the movie, he's not being screwed. He can open himself up like, let's find this.
Netta (44:42)
Yeah.
Yeah, me too. I know it is like
Well, I think that scene where he hires the asthmatic hitman comes
Steph (45:07)
Haha
Netta (45:08)
It's after his boss talks to him. His boss, who is this very kind of devil character. I have a note here. I have a note here. typical. Devil boss, very Jewish. It's got a Yiddish accent and everything.
Steph (45:11)
Yes. Yes. ⁓ my goodness. Insane.
Netta (45:32)
I think the Coen brothers have ⁓ been accused of antisemitism. I don't really have a take on that, but I think this character does not help their case if they're trying to say they're not, but fine. But anyways, it's, But this devilish boss character, basically, I think the message they get from him is to do this and...
Steph (45:42)
Right? Yes, agreed. It's very funny in the movie, though.
Yes.
Netta (45:58)
it being this very absurd. Yeah. Or he tells them to take care of it. I don't remember exactly, but like in this insane world.
Steph (46:00)
Yes, that's true. forgot about that.
Yep. Yeah. Like the firm is built on power and reputation
and we can't have that fault and go fix it. And so then they go to easy jail and he's going to fix it. Hilarious though. Hilarious. ⁓
Netta (46:10)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, also the incompetent hitman
is like a great thing to have in a movie. just does so or like just like the incompetent hired criminal. I think can just it just so good at throwing a wrench and things.
Steph (46:26)
Mm-hmm.
Yes, absolutely. I just like it's just so silly. The interactions with him like I'm Mr. Smith. No, I'm no, I'm representing Mr. Smith. He is me like later when he says it. And I say to you, the other trope that I really, really like that or not trope, the other thing that I really exaggerate make fun of is the lawyers spinning the stories like all the time. So like at the beginning of George Clooney talking about the pool boy.
Netta (46:35)
Yeah. Yep.
Yeah.
Steph (46:54)
And like, okay, so the pool boy was there, but in fact, it was him who was in love with the pool boy. And she's like, what? And he's like, sorry, I went too far. And then later with the hit man, someone's like, okay. like the lawyer giving the story about why the hit man was there was also insane. I can't remember it, but it's like just the idea that these lawyers are all heartless liars that are gonna spin the tales and just so fun.
Netta (46:58)
Hehehe
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, I think the idea that like what drives lawyers is wanting to win. Which I, yeah. Yeah. Like that's, it's not justice. It's not principle. Like it's wanting to win and that's what makes a good lawyer or that's what makes a lawyer in any case. but I did want to ask like,
Steph (47:21)
Yes. like at all costs. Yeah. ⁓
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Yes.
Netta (47:36)
So throughout the movie, this guy, like George Clooney is talking about how dissatisfied he is. Sometimes it seems like boredom. Sometimes it seems like, you know, just things are too easy. Sometimes it feels like, okay, maybe what's missing is like love or a family or like a, just a life outside of work.
Steph (47:39)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Netta (48:00)
But was
just hard. I guess that's what it was. think it was at various times, it was just like.
like his lack of satisfaction, where does that come from and how does that drive him to her specifically? guess it is the, yeah, you seem to have thoughts.
Steph (48:18)
thoughts I could use on this. think that what I read from how he was and how things were is that he's uninterested. He's bored. He's bored with his life. He's got tons of money. He's winning all these cases. Like he wants, he thinks like the challenging case is going to do it for him. And then he gets the challenging case, but he's still like, merm, like there's just something missing that's interesting. I think the way I took it was like, this is a man who's like at the apex of success in many realms.
And things come very easy to him. And so he's very intrigued by Catherine Zeta-Jones because she is something that is a challenge is different is an enigma to him. Like he can't just kind of like, like dominate that or sweep it under. Like she's, he's looking for something interesting and to interest him. And she interests him because she is obviously like very gorgeous. Like we see her the first time they meet. He's very taken aback by her beauty.
but then like her intellect and the way she operates. He's very interested. So I think that's what draws him to her. He's looking for something interesting, whether it be career, personal, professional, whatever, and then she becomes that.
because she challenges me.
Netta (49:26)
Yeah.
Yeah, that makes sense. mean, no, no, no, I think like, ⁓
Steph (49:28)
You're like,
Netta (49:32)
Yeah, kind of a feeling, I guess, that for each of them that they've met their match.
Steph (49:36)
Yes, yes, it's I feel like that is that typical tons of romcoms have that right. Or it's like, ⁓ and that's why I like in this movie, because typically those movies go like adversarial. Like we are adversaries and then it develops into an admiration and a respect and then love. Whereas this one, like he comes right out and said it right. So they are kind of like, quote unquote adversaries. But he's like, this is like
Netta (49:39)
Yeah. Yeah.
very early.
Steph (50:04)
That shocked me, actually. Like, I thought he was going to, like, hate her and she was going to hate him and they were going to go at it, but it's very clear very early that he's, really into her and the challenge that she can bring.
Netta (50:13)
Yeah.
Right,
they enjoy the game.
Steph (50:17)
Yeah, yeah, it's about the game. That's what he likes.
Netta (50:19)
Yeah,
Yeah, and she's into it too. I mean, it seems like that's also what draws her to him. mean, what draws her to him is wanting to take her revenge and in the meantime also, you know, hopefully get his fortune or at least half of it. ⁓
Steph (50:28)
I think she's after the money.
Yes.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Netta (50:40)
But in process, she develops feelings for him as well that are genuine.
Steph (50:47)
Yeah, and it's like, I was just gonna say like, where does that come from? Is it the fact that she felt like genuinely loved and cared for? So she had like a soft spot for that? Like, because you know how some people can love someone more if they feel super loved? Like it's very reciprocal thing. Like, yeah, like what's that about for her? Like we, I feel like we see earlier why he's very interested, but she, like what, what?
About him draws her in.
Netta (51:14)
That's the thing, it's like for her, the most important thing is independence. Like money is great in and of itself, but for her it really seems like independence is what motivates her. And marriage is the opposite of that.
Steph (51:19)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Yeah.
Netta (51:31)
So it's almost like, I don't know, is it like the way you love a little puppy dog? Like she just sees how desperate he is for her, enamored and she wants to be adored. I mean, this is like such, if that's what's going, that's just such a typical, I feel like very, very old story about romance, like old as in like.
Steph (51:39)
Yes, and enamored he is and...
Baby!
Netta (51:56)
I don't know, is this what the Greeks were saying about romance and about women wanting to be looked at and adored, right? Like this is kind of the roles. ⁓ Like I think this thing of like, yeah, I don't know, for all the ways that undermine the rom-com, this is very typical romance story. Like very, very classic idea of like man chases woman and she...
Steph (52:01)
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah.
Hmm.
Netta (52:21)
she responds to that because her place is to be a kind of object of adoration. I don't know, was there something more there?
Steph (52:30)
I was going say the one thing that is causing me pause around like why is she into him? I think what we've seen with her and amongst her group of women is that they end up marrying these men, these older men who are very rich and wealthy, but for all intents and purposes are into like young hot wives. Whereas it's very clear that George Clooney is into her for like
Netta (52:51)
Mmm.
Steph (52:55)
her wits, like who she is, how she thinks, like you're interesting to me as a person, you know, of course they both have to be gorgeous. However, it's not necessarily about the money and like for for him, he's not after her money or the young hot wife or the trophy or anything like that. Like he wants like her for who
Netta (52:57)
Mmm.
Mmm.
Steph (53:17)
She is, and maybe she is into that. She's not had that.
Netta (53:20)
And I guess there is sort of that whole thing of seeing her friend who is alone, who is extremely wealthy, but can't really have much of a life and has those terrible ulcers and it kind of gets her, yeah.
Steph (53:27)
Mm hmm. Yeah, but no one loves her. Yeah. Oh, my God, the peptic ulcers.
Netta (53:37)
And it gets her thinking differently about what, it gets her to reconsider what she wants. She still wants money. She still wants, but maybe not independence, if independence means being alone.
Steph (53:40)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
The typical way she's done about it, yeah.
Yeah. Or with like a gross old man. Yeah.
Netta (53:52)
She doesn't want to be alone. And
he...
He is her match. Like he is her equal.
Steph (53:57)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Netta (53:58)
Yeah. Yeah.
Steph (54:01)
But it's done fun.
I also had a thought about romance and the definition of romance. As you were talking, I was thinking about how. Like, I think movies and stuff portray romance in a way, and like, we're obviously influenced by what we watch at certain ages. Like at one point in time, my idea of romance was like. The tragic forbidden, the dynamic, the like, you know, and it's it's interesting because now being like.
Netta (54:06)
Mm-hmm.
Steph (54:25)
in a marriage trying to function in the suburbs with two kids. Like to be honest with you, my idea of romance is like the dishes are being done and the kids have been put to bed and I'm over here. It's like, ⁓ my. Like the dramatic view of romance that I once romanticized does not work like in life. When you think about like life in the suburbs, like there's no time.
Netta (54:27)
You
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Steph (54:52)
the dynamic sexy arguments. There's no time for like the dramatic sacrifices. Like it's about little small things. And so yeah, I was just sitting here thinking like about romance and romantic things and like maybe like just in like over time our ideas about love and romance change and what we're drawn to in movies and like this movie really got me because
Netta (54:55)
Mm.
Steph (55:16)
Yeah, it was subtle, it was simple, I guess, in romance, and silly and fun. Being silly is very romantic, I guess.
Netta (55:26)
But.
Steph (55:25)
I think we've
talked about romance and love and emotionality in that way far more than this movie deserved. Like, feel like not now, like soon one time we will actually watch like what is critically claimed as like a romance movie or
Netta (55:34)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Steph (55:50)
wrong
mom and then the these conversations of romance scattered it I know it feels really scattered to me because I just can't stop thinking about the silly things in this film ⁓ yes
Netta (55:52)
Yeah, yeah.
I know, but it does feel misplaced.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. But no, wait a second, wait a second though. Money in
this movie and its relationship to love, is, like I feel like what happened in this movie was that they could be together when they were equals financially, which is very,
Steph (56:13)
Okay.
Mm-hmm, I know. She was richer.
Netta (56:28)
which is very Jane Eyre.
Steph (56:30)
is it? I'm not as familiar.
Netta (56:31)
Yeah, in Jane Eyre, the two love interests.
Like, he's extremely wealthy, she's penniless.
Steph (56:39)
Mm-hmm.
Netta (56:40)
they separate, like they're in love with each other, they declare their love, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, but then they separate and then they get back together after she gets a surprising inheritance. And it's not like causal in the story, okay, now she has a surprising inheritance, therefore she goes back, but it's more that the story kind of allows them to
Steph (56:58)
so we can beat it.
Netta (57:04)
get together again after they are on more equal footing.
Steph (57:06)
Mm hmm. Mm
hmm.
Netta (57:09)
And this is, or maybe he's turned penny, like maybe he loses a lot of his fortune too. So she has the upper hand, but I think that like similarly here, there's a kind of a sense that like they can be together when the money thing is sorted out.
Steph (57:17)
Mmm.
Yeah, like the the power imbalance that could be created financially because they both care about that so much is like no. And that that could mean they're both rich or they're both poor, but it doesn't matter. Yeah.
Netta (57:30)
Thank
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. think it's like it's just it's a thing that the movie had to be clever about making happen. And it was. It did happen.
Steph (57:40)
What are we thinking about that? Just that it is?
Yeah. And how, yeah, I
was going to say, and, I like that it did that. Like I like that it nulls that out for us. Like we're not left wondering at the end of the day is one of them with the other because they have money, right? Like it makes it a non-factor.
Netta (57:59)
Mm. Yeah.
Yeah.
And kind of going back to that idea that like, you know, she... they kind of take on this role where he adores her and she's this kind of like object of admiration. Like that's sort of the idea of a trophy wife and it takes that off the table too. So that's... so that that's not like it kind of actually maybe nullifies
Steph (58:21)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Netta (58:29)
that dynamic so that they are coming into it as equal partners in love, in terms of like how they feel about each other and in terms of their wit and intelligence and their sensibilities and financially. So it kind of like evens them out and makes it possible. Yeah, so clever. What a clever movie.
Steph (58:34)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Yeah.
Yes, it's very clever. Yes. No one's saving anybody.
I know it's so clever. I love it. So fun and clever. And I love to ⁓ like the actors, like even though there was a lot of like in our opening, we're talking about like a bunch of people are in this. And I love like even for bit parts, like I think that's I feel like that's always a sign of like a good director, writer, duo or singular person that they can get.
Netta (58:53)
So clever.
Steph (59:14)
people on board for fun projects just because they're fun projects. Like Billy Bob Thornton. Like he's in it for like four minutes, but it's so good. Like he's so good. You know, and like, I think those are smart choices on part of directors, writers, casting, whatever, to fill those holes with fun, enigmatic people instead of just randoms. I think it adds something, you know?
Netta (59:18)
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
Steph (59:42)
which is really fun.
Netta (59:43)
Mm-hmm. I agree. I loved it. Well, I loved that aspect of it. I'm not sure I loved the movie as we said, but it's fine. It's good. I really enjoyed the movie.
Steph (59:45)
Yeah. Yeah.
I know what I was gonna say!
What would you give it out of 10? I'm just wondering because like.
Netta (59:57)
I don't know, this is like something
that Eric asks me and I hate it. I hate that question.
Steph (1:00:03)
Because I feel like a lot of the time we both love the movies we pick. And I feel like it's rare that we're like, ah. And so I'm just wondering like in your, ah, what are you, are you like a five, six, seven? You still enjoy, okay. So you still did very much enjoy it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Netta (1:00:16)
⁓ No, no, a seven or an eight. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
yeah, totally, totally. I enjoyed it very, very much. It's like, I think it is, it's a movie that is both enjoyable and clever as a movie.
⁓ But again, I think it just like the heart of this movie was was a bit lost in. Was a bit lost for me.
Steph (1:00:43)
Yeah. And that I think is true and just something that I embraced and was very okay with.
Netta (1:00:48)
Yeah.
That's so interesting because you're the romantic and you're okay with it not being there. But I can respect it in terms of like, because you're a romantic, rom-coms are so frustrating. And so this is a kind of like anti rom-com was like, yes.
Steph (1:00:52)
I know.
they're so frustrating. Yes, I like
I like anti romcoms that are silly and fun. think within the first like five minutes, like I wrote a note like, what is this? Like it was so right off the bat. A typically what I thought was going to happen. And I was so there for it. But also like, what the where's this going? Like, what is this? I don't know. It's so fun. yeah.
Netta (1:01:18)
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
Steph (1:01:29)
I like that. Yeah. Yeah. Yay. Okay. What's next?
Netta (1:01:30)
Yeah, good, yay, great.
Yeah.
I don't know. I'm open. I'm so open. It is your pick.
Steph (1:01:38)
It's my pick.
What do feel like? ⁓
Netta (1:01:44)
I kind of feel the same as I felt when I picked this. Like, whatever.
Steph (1:01:48)
I know this ⁓
was a very good palette cleanser movie as we've talked about those in the past. They're kind of neutral in a sense, like they're not evoking strong emotions one way or the other. And so where to jump off from here?
Netta (1:01:52)
Mmm.
Mm-hmm.
Netta (1:02:15)
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