Black Bag (2025)
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Transcript
Steph (00:00)
I loved his heavy glasses for some reason. like this is a serious person. Like he is not whimsical.
Welcome to Popcorn Moms, the podcast for parents who love their kids most, but loved movies first. We're your cohost Stephanie.
Netta (00:19)
and Netta, two movie lovers turned moms. Join us as we reconnect with the things that make us whole outside of parenthood, namely watching movies. And today's movie is Black Bag, a 2025 American spy thriller film directed by Steven Soderbergh, which is a name I will get comfortable with eventually, and written by David Cope. It stars Cate Blanchett, Michael Fassbender, a whole bunch of other people.
Steph (00:37)
Soderbergh.
Netta (00:46)
In the film, British intelligence officers George Woodhouse, played by Fassbender, is assigned to investigate a list of suspected traitors, one of whom is his wife, Catherine, played by Blanchette. And this pick was Stephanie's. So Steph, why did you choose this movie?
Steph (01:01)
Yes.
Well, I'd seen it advertised some time ago and put it on my to watch list. The mood was never right. And then gearing up for this movie club is we haven't picked in some time. It was like, well, what do we feel like? I don't know. My mood was all over the place. And I just wanted something I hadn't seen before and was willing to take a shot, roll the dice. So here we go. I chose Black Bag. Who doesn't love a spy thriller?
Netta (01:30)
Did you like it?
Steph (01:31)
I don't know!
Did you? I think I did. I think I feel the same. I did.
Netta (01:34)
I mean, it was...
I enjoyed it. think it was like, it's not on my list of favorites or anything. ⁓ And it's necessarily what I expected. Like I also, I'd seen the ads, I'd wanted to see it. Like I saw the trailer.
Steph (01:45)
No.
Okay, yeah, like what was your like pre me picking this had you heard of it?
Netta (01:57)
I had and I had wanted to watch it. ⁓ But it was one where I guess I knew enough to know that there could be spoilers and I actively avoided knowing as much about it as possible.
Steph (01:59)
Good, okay.
⁓ interesting.
Netta (02:14)
And then it's been quite a while since I saw the trailer. So I kind of forgot everything anyway. So I went into it like kind of blind. I was expecting it to be more of like an active spy thriller, like for there to be more action. But I was I was kind of down for the ride, whatever it was. I feel like it's a movie where there's like a lot you can unpack, but like.
Steph (02:21)
Mmm.
Yeah.
Yes.
Netta (02:40)
yeah, what it is in terms of like, ⁓ guess what you could write an essay about it and all the things we can talk about it. And then there's like the experience of watching it. And I feel like the experience of watching it was like, great, I really liked it. I feel like the essay you could write about it is maybe richer than the watching experience, if that makes sense.
Steph (02:51)
Yes, I agree.
Yes. Yeah.
Yeah. Like I think I was very excited to talk about it, but not like in some cases, we're so excited to talk because we love the movie so much. And there's just so much. think this one, like I'm excited to talk about because there's a lot of depth of things that you can talk about. I have a few problems with it. And so those would be interesting to talk about. And like, I agree with you. It was like,
entertaining to watch for the exact time that it was playing, which was an hour and 34 minutes. It was a shorter film, which I think was good, although maybe they could have done a better job with a little more time. I don't know. There was many things. It was just off. Like things were off for me. I would give it a solid 6.5. Yeah. Yeah. Cause well, maybe I'll, maybe I'll change my tune by the end of this, but
Netta (03:31)
Yeah.
Mmm.
Wow, okay, 6.5, okay.
No, no, no, no,
no,
Steph (03:52)
There are things that I quite enjoyed. Like Sean looked at me 20 minutes in and he was like, are you liking this? And I was like, yeah, like I'm here for it. But there was just some things. It was like, it ⁓ could have been a lot better, but it was still entertaining for an evening.
Netta (04:05)
Mmm.
Okay. So what I'm now I'm very curious why, what was off about it for you.
Steph (04:13)
Mmm.
Do you feel the same?
Like, do you feel like there was things that were off or you don't feel like that?
Netta (04:19)
I
Not necessarily, but I also, I feel like I'm gonna change my mind by the end of this conversation more than you will. maybe the one thing is that like,
Steph (04:22)
Ooh.
Netta (04:33)
I'm sitting here like 24 hours after having watched it. I'm not sure I can explain to you what happened.
Steph (04:42)
I also watched it 24 hours ago.
Really? Right? There's holes! There's jumps.
Netta (04:49)
the thing there were I remember afterwards and I think
I wrote some of them down where I was like, why didn't they just do this much simpler thing and blah, blah. But if you were to ask me now to explain the ending, I might be able to but I'm not confident that I would that I've gotten it right.
Steph (04:55)
Yeah, it's weird.
OK, that's yeah, see, that's a problem. That's a problem because like the ending of these type of movies are supposed to be like the punch line, like the moment. And so if you can't like, if you don't get it, kind of a problem.
Netta (05:16)
Yeah.
Yeah.
maybe this is going to be a difference in our viewing experiences, which is it didn't necessarily land for me, but I'm not sure. I'm not sure that I mined that much. And I feel like that's where the subjectivity comes in and like all the other parts of the movie, like how stylish it is and blah, blah. Like so stylish.
Steph (05:26)
Yeah, same.
Yeah, same.
it's so stylish. ⁓
I loved it. That part of it.
Netta (05:43)
Yeah. Did it feel like?
Okay, but I want to hear from you though. Like what, what didn't work? What was off?
Steph (05:49)
Okay, so the thing that drove me absolutely, I swear, ape shit was the score. This score to me was so wildly incongruent with what the tone that I think they were trying to strike. It's like they could not decide and it was driving me bananas the whole movie.
Netta (05:55)
I
Mmm.
interesting.
Steph (06:13)
So like, yeah, so like the movie starts and it's like, ooh, this is clearly going to be stylized. This is like serious. This is like intrigue type spy films, right? Like trade craft and interest and all this stuff. And then you get this like, like, shit. Like it's Steven Soderbergh, right? So that's Ocean's 11. Like he did the Ocean's 11 movie. So you get that score, which is like paper fun, like
Netta (06:37)
The kind of caper fun.
Steph (06:42)
Zesty like I'm snapping if that's not coming through that lighter tone With the quippy lines. So there was on one hand you get like stylish sleek it kind of felt like the vibes were like original mission impossible where there's a team and their subterfuge and who who done it but serious and then on the other side you have this
fun quippy banter and caper style score. And I'm like, what is going on here, man? It was driving me nuts. Like it made me think about the third man and the zither and how much you hated that. This would be a bajillion percent, probably one of my most hated scores in a movie.
Netta (07:25)
Yeah, yeah.
Wow.
Steph (07:31)
Because
yeah, I feel so strongly about it. I actually really, really feel for me if the score was different, I would feel a lot differently about the movie
okay, I'll say this. I really like when composers and scores have a bit of a signature. you can tell, you can always tell when it's a Hans Zimmer or a Tyler Bates or something like that. But this was too much, like exactly.
Netta (07:52)
Mm.
Steph (07:52)
Like,
Ocean's 11. Like, when it takes you too much there, it kind of screws up the tone.
Netta (07:59)
Yeah, yeah, that's fair. And I think this is like part of the issue when things are very stylized is that the risk is that takes you out of it. Right? the movie had a number of highly stylized elements, right? So I...
Steph (08:14)
Mm-hmm. Yes.
Netta (08:15)
what would be like the production design, like the sets and the lighting and which I want to talk about and the score. And I don't know, it feels like it felt to me like all of that stuff melded together.
Steph (08:17)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Netta (08:32)
except maybe not the score, except I didn't notice it. So, you know, maybe for me it was fine.
Steph (08:37)
I'm just say like,
I know, I feel like we've talked about scores in movies before, when they're like mismatchy, when they add and when they're noticeably excellent. And then the times when it's like you don't notice, like I feel like that's kind of a good thing. this one I noticed immediately and it detracted from all those other really good stylish things. I didn't know what tone
Netta (08:57)
Hmm.
Steph (09:02)
was being tried to like, cause you know how there's couple spy thrillers and some of them are like fun and upbeat and action packed and silly and sweet. And then some are like heavy and serious and like, like that's what I thought this one was trying to go for with all those elements. But then the score and some of the like quippy stuff was the other. it was just, it was weird for me.
Netta (09:08)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
That's fair. I think, it did feel like on the one hand, this kind of like spy thriller type thing with like international intrigue and blah, blah.
Steph (09:34)
Mm-hmm.
Netta (09:34)
and like sign it and get the satellite and then all of that stuff. But then it also felt like a play and like a, right? And like it had that kind of vibe of being ⁓ like a relationship drama, right? With the four or the three couples gathered together at the beginning and then at the end for the dinner party.
Steph (09:36)
Yes. ⁓
Oh, it felt like a play. I know I was gonna say that too. Mm-hmm.
I know!
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Netta (10:01)
I just thought, is the whole movie gonna be this one dinner party?
Steph (10:04)
I had this
same thought.
Netta (10:05)
Which is sort of like, it is kind of a weird fit with spy thriller.
Steph (10:09)
You think?
because I feel like a lot of the film noir style isn't a lot of that, so static, usually with the voiceover in the detective's office and she comes in and you know what I mean? And this had flavors of that.
Netta (10:14)
Mmm.
Yeah.
Steph (10:24)
Like it's a spy thriller, but people aren't like swinging off of buildings and stealthily like crawling through air ducts. Like it's more about like the, the intelligence side of things. And so I feel like it could have lent itself to like play Like, I don't know.
Netta (10:29)
Yeah, yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Okay, yeah,
yeah, yeah, yeah. I hear you. Hmm.
Steph (10:44)
Like so much of it takes place at their home.
Netta (10:47)
Yes, and I think this has been done, ⁓ but this thing of like, you know, working for like a secret service organization as a metaphor for marriage is always like, isn't that what's going on here? Like, isn't that kind of like this thing of like secrecy and lies and
right? And just all this stuff about infidel, like infidelity is such a huge thing, right? Like betraying your partner and betraying your country and like
Steph (11:11)
Yeah.
⁓ interesting.
Netta (11:16)
All of that. I felt like this was Mr. and Mrs. Smith, but serious, right?
Steph (11:22)
the idea of like the couples and like them as a couple intersecting with a larger plot. I think that could have been done a lot better.
Netta (11:32)
Okay, say more.
Steph (11:32)
I feel like the movie was shorter and I think they could have been... It feels almost like scenes were ripped from it. Like, kind of haphazardly. Like, that could have really developed the characters more so that you care. Like, maybe this is one of those movies too that, like, I didn't find myself caring about any character. And maybe that's fine. Like, it's more about, like, what's the truth here? But I almost also, like...
Netta (11:39)
Mm.
Mm.
Steph (11:57)
don't know how much I cared about the truth because they didn't do a good job of setting it up. It's maybe like three or four minutes in that it's like, boom, here's a list. Your wife's on the list. And he's like, OK,
Netta (12:07)
I mean, I think that their relationship is sort of built up over time ⁓ throughout the movie. So you're not necessarily given that like, ⁓ you know, they have just this like super solid relationship right off the bat or it takes some time to kind of build up what that actually means or how much that means and how much ⁓
it's not the kind of like spy thriller relationship drama that's like, well, you you expect this person might betray you eventually because you don't ever really know who's sleeping beside you when you are, you know, working in the kind of secret intelligence services. ⁓
Steph (12:45)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Netta (12:56)
And so you kind of have to learn over time that actually know they are monogamous, they choose each other, da da da da da da dum, and how big of a deal it is. I think it kind of helped add to the intrigue in the sense that like, you're not necessarily going into it from the beginning thinking that like,
Steph (13:02)
Mm-hmm.
Netta (13:17)
how solid their relationship is. The trade off is that what's at stake in it is maybe a bit less because you're not thinking like, this would be such a huge betrayal.
Steph (13:24)
Mm-hmm
Hmm.
Netta (13:28)
even
you're kind of introduced to her as a suspect.
Steph (13:31)
Yes, which I think is fine. I don't think it's a problem that you're introduced to her as a suspect right off the bat. I just feel like they, they show you their relationship over time, but it's not like, I don't know. I'm trying to figure it out.
There was just the depth of like their closeness that I was missing.
Netta (13:55)
You know what I think? Okay. I think the way the movie is kind of structured or the way their arc and the kind of revealing of their relationship is that like the scene where she comes back from Zurich, Freddie tells her, you know, George is onto you or we have some kind of plotting going on.
Steph (14:09)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Netta (14:16)
in a way that's like, you know, they're not having an affair, but it's kind of styled after an affair where, you know, it's like these two who are trying to hide something from the husband and blah, blah. And she gets into bed with him and their backs are away from each other. They don't say anything to each other. And then she says, or one of them basically opens it up and just says, you know, I think we're being set up or I think you're being set up or I'm being set up, whatever.
Steph (14:21)
Mmm.
Yes.
Yes.
Netta (14:42)
And that kind of is a bit of a reveal moment for how close they are.
Steph (14:47)
Yes!
Yes, I feel like that is actually like the interesting reveal and twist of the movie that like, actually they're going to trust each other first before everyone. And I just feel like it wasn't, maybe that maybe there just wasn't enough buildup to that moment.
Netta (15:08)
Going back to your score commentary, when I think about it, it's like, there wasn't necessarily as much tension at that point as there could have been. And it's kind of like, why not? I mean, all the characters are very terse. is that very kind of like heightened stylized design around And I wonder if actually the score is what failed to rev it up.
Steph (15:18)
Yes, right? Yeah. Right? Yes.
Yes! Yes.
Yes, there was no... Yes, Netta, that's it. Like, there's the scores, the downfall of this movie. Yes, because like, looking around, it's like all sorts of tension. Even their house it's so moody, it's brooding, it's exuding like, like the richness of all these rich people with no children and all the moody homes.
Netta (15:39)
Just blame it all on the score.
And I, yeah.
Steph (15:59)
And then the score is like, it's like, what? There's no tension. It doesn't add. And you're right. Like that scene when they turn to each other, the tension did not get to a point. It was kind of like it only took them like a day and a half to figure this out. Like, and the consequences are like, wow, like, I don't know. Like it just it was not as impactful. Maybe.
Netta (16:19)
Yeah,
yeah, no, I can see it. I can see that. ⁓
Steph (16:23)
Like there wasn't enough
mistrust sown for them to overcome that mistrust to then turn to each other.
Netta (16:30)
Right, right. For it to be kind of a twist that actually neither of them were actually mistrusting each other.
Steph (16:34)
SHOULD.
Yeah, and like to show the depth of a relationship, like, he found a movie stub and thought maybe she lied about the movie stub. But then later was like, that's amateur. Of course you wouldn't lie about a movie. So actually. Like. What then? Like, I don't know, but yeah, like, yeah, there wasn't enough. Of them being pit against each other.
Netta (16:41)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah. Yeah.
tension buildup.
Mm.
Steph (16:56)
for it to show maybe the depth of their relationship to then.
Netta (17:01)
Right, because there is that whole thing of like when he does do the satellite redirect blah blah and he's telling the younger woman you know what it takes to have a relationship or to have a marriage with somebody else in this line of work. And though I mean the main takeaway I think from that whole spiel is like you put each other first you you
Steph (17:06)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Netta (17:24)
Basically, you have to be trustworthy and the other person has to be trustworthy and you reward that trustworthiness with absolute loyalty.
Steph (17:28)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm, yes.
Netta (17:32)
where he's saying it, you absolutely believe him that he thinks this
that he is motivated by protecting her and not by actual suspicion. Or if he does suspect her of having done something or of having betrayed the country, that he is still going to act in her best interests above all else.
Steph (17:38)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, and maybe that is what is detracting from maybe like the intrigue of the movie is that like it's not necessarily about like a husband trying to like suss out his wife. It's and then choosing his kind it's about him like trying to figure out so he could protect her. that is like less interesting.
Netta (18:10)
Right, there's not like the inner conflict. Like he's very clear the whole time.
Steph (18:12)
Yeah.
Yeah, like I got to figure this out to protect her. It's like, OK, cool. Like, is he feeling betrayed? No, he's not talking like. He just wants to like help her, I guess that boring. I don't know.
Netta (18:23)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, it might be boring. mean, it's kind of nice.
I think maybe maybe some of this is also like, I think that it is difficult to find movies with good marriages in them. And so I think maybe I just appreciate it. I just maybe I just appreciate a movie with a good marriage and it's nice. It's just nice. It's just like now.
Steph (18:40)
Hmm. Interesting. That's nice.
Yes.
I don't know. Is it a good marriage if they're still suspecting each other and keeping secrets from each other? Like, I know that's part of their...
They're like, bang or whatever, but he's still like sneaking into her office and spying on her with satellites and slinking around. I don't know. Is this a good marriage?
Netta (19:16)
I think that there are aspects of a marriage that are highlighted in this, let us say. And I think that there are some, okay, here's a question that I had or like a kind of a theme or a thing that kept.
Steph (19:22)
You
Netta (19:32)
recurring, which is like this very fine line or sometimes sometimes I felt like this movie drew a very like strong line between privacy and secrecy and other times it felt like there was no difference between them at all.
there's an aspect to their marriage which is about like, know, understanding that they are going to have secret or that they need a certain amount of, they need a certain amount of privacy for their work. They can't tell each other where they're going on their sort of, you know, business trips, ⁓ They have this sort of this black bag idea to say, you know, it's in the black bag, we can't talk about it. ⁓
Steph (20:01)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Hmm.
Netta (20:16)
But then there's other times where it's ⁓ you know, privacy and secrecy are, are clearly very, very blurred. So like when he effectively blackmails the younger woman into helping him by saying, well, I will, I will protect your privacy, as in I will not tell your boyfriend.
Steph (20:32)
Yes.
Mm-hmm. I will not spy on you. And yeah.
Netta (20:40)
Well, like I won't tell your boyfriend that you took E and like slept with a bunch of people. you know, there's clearly, clearly that's not just, you know, professional privacy there's secrecy going on there. So I don't know. I just felt like this movie wasn't, this sort of ambiguity between those two things was definitely kind of highlighted.
Steph (20:46)
Mm-hmm.
Hmm.
Netta (21:04)
but sometimes it was like a very clear line between them and other times not at all.
Steph (21:09)
Do you think like that, like, is that why and how like they stand out as a couple it's almost like they have agreed upon, these are the things that we will not share. These are the things that will go in the black bag. Like this is where we can have secrecy or privacy, whatever. But like everything else is on the table. Whereas like other couples around that table seem to falter because
Things like that got really blurred.
Netta (21:31)
Yeah, infidelity, I think comes up so much in this movie. and it's just kind of like the most brazen form of lying and cheating and betraying your partner. But there are obviously other ways to do so as well. ⁓
Steph (21:33)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Netta (21:48)
And so their kind of insistence on like monogamy that they are, that they don't lie, which is also like, again, his thing where like, you know, he doesn't like liars, but like he's in this business where he has to lie. Everybody around him has to lie. His wife, you know, like, yeah, there's kind of this, this weird contradiction there where he's so absolute on this.
Steph (21:52)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm. That's what I mean. I know that's like what's bugging me
Hmm.
Netta (22:15)
and yet it's not really clear how that can be the case.
Steph (22:19)
Yes, I think that bothered me a lot. he's kind of put up as this super moral compass, serious, a guy who decides. And it's like, you're still in this business of lying. you and your wife call it secrecy, privacy, whatever, share everything with each other.
Like his whole, like the whole first half of the movie when he's like trying to figure out her situation, he's lying to her.
Netta (22:43)
Right, and it's like if he really trusts her, why doesn't he just...
Steph (22:47)
I know. Okay. So I was going to say this and then we started talking about the secret to privacy, but I think what bothers me so much about them as a couple and how this movie is framed, it's, bigger than just like, how they're shown. is where I feel like they didn't lean in one way or the other. Is this a movie about a couple who works in this field and trust is shaken and he is now suspecting her and diving into
suspecting her and like the foundations of trust are going to be eroded over the course of the movie. How exciting. Or is this a movie about a couple who is so tight that even like larger plots at play and people cannot shake their bond? And I feel like we have flavors of both and that is what is bothering me.
Netta (23:34)
Right. Okay, I hate this expression because I don't think it makes any sense, but it's this thing of like, have your cake and eat it too kind of thing where they want to be able to both have this super tight couple, but also have the intrigue of distrust within the movie.
Steph (23:41)
Yes!
Yes, they're trying to do. It's like too much, it's like. Like pick one or the other, as the movie goes on and it gets revealed that they like are very aware that there's like this larger plot, it's like, I don't know, I had a hard time believing that some of their actions prior to that.
Netta (23:55)
Mm.
Steph (24:08)
were actions they would actually take based on how these characters are talked about as being so competent and smart and leaders in this field. I don't know. I think it would have been more interesting one way or the other if she was actually doing this and the trust to slowly be eroded and how could this happen and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Netta (24:15)
Mm.
Steph (24:26)
And I think it would be more interesting is right from the hop, you see how tight they are and they jointly have to work together to figure this out.
Netta (24:33)
I mean...
Steph (24:33)
I don't know, or they just do a better job at framing both up.
Netta (24:34)
Maybe.
Yeah, I mean, I will, will grant you that like this movie did not execute as well as it needed to in order to pull off this kind of hybrid thing. I will. Yeah, I'm with you on that. I still think it's a really interesting idea, though, this kind of middle of the line.
Steph (24:43)
Yeah.
Yes. Okay, yeah.
Netta (24:55)
I think what this movie wanted to do above anything else was explore certain ideas about marriage and what it takes to have a good, like a really great marriage over the long term. And it kind of prioritized that above, you know, above.
Steph (25:02)
I think you're
spy thriller. And maybe that's why I'm so upset.
I wanted a spy thriller. I didn't want a metaphor for marriage, trust and secrecy and fidelity and lies and truths. But I think you're right. I do think you're right. Like that comes to the forefront throughout the movie, right? relationships, friendships.
Netta (25:19)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You know what?
Yeah.
Steph (25:40)
marriages, what's at the core of these things, how do they function?
Netta (25:44)
and maybe this is why I like it this much, such that like all of the the kind of flaws and the ways that the plot and the decisions that people make aren't super consistent with what we're told, maybe because I just I'm I'm OK that I didn't
get that spy thriller. wasn't necessarily like looking for like, wasn't necessarily like, this is what I want right now. I was kind of like, happy with, you know, whatever movie was put in front of me. And also because, again, I think it's pretty rare to have a movie about a good marriage. And I think it's hard to make a good marriage interesting in a movie.
Steph (26:04)
Mmm.
Okay, yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Netta (26:23)
So I was kind of into a movie about a good marriage.
Steph (26:27)
Good marriage into in the like spy world.
Netta (26:31)
Yeah, or like, but again, I think I think because the the, you know, the reason to put it in this spy world is to bring up these themes of like, loyalty, honesty, transparency, like, how do you operate as a partnership, or as an organization where like transparency and full honesty is not possible?
Steph (26:46)
Yes.
Mm-hmm.
Netta (26:56)
you know, how do you have a kind of trusting, solid, strong relationship when you also need privacy? I just think that like, the answer that this movie came up with, which I think only works when there are no kids in the picture, is that like,
just adoration. put your partner on a pedestal and you adore them. And that's what keeps it strong. there's a kind of like, I think that's where like the, I don't know. I think that's where the eroticism of it comes from. right? Like their chemistry and when he's like giving that spiel, when he's giving that spiel to the younger woman and she's like, that's hot. It's like.
Steph (27:23)
Mmm... Yeah.
⁓ Yes, they had great chemistry.
Yeah.
Netta (27:42)
What's
hot about it is like the the adoration aspect of it, which really does not, I think, work so much when you have kids together. just I feel like I feel like that's a very it just a different dynamic that has to that has to emerge. ⁓ You know, I don't know. But anyway, but I think like that adoration and like, again, that thing that like you are
Steph (27:54)
What?
Netta (28:09)
you have to be trustworthy and your partner has to be trustworthy. you just have to be very strong in that trustworthiness, both of you. And you have to put each other on a pedestal a little bit. I think that's the answer that it gives.
Steph (28:20)
Yeah, and see,
and I think like that's maybe, the first half of the movie, like they don't do that or we're not shown them doing that. And so. It bothers me slightly, I don't know, I think maybe I just wanted to be like, yeah, like that dichotomy of the two different ways this could have gone, like I think they could have leaned in both halves like harder.
Netta (28:27)
Mm.
Steph (28:45)
to make it a little more interesting. And I think I wanted a spy movie. I wanted to see how a devoted husband would turn on his wife. And that didn't happen.
Netta (28:49)
Hehehehehe
Yeah.
Steph (28:58)
that's a bummer. Also, I think...
Netta (28:59)
Yeah, that's fair. ⁓
Steph (29:05)
I think you keep saying like a good marriage. I don't know, man. Like, I think the other relationships were shown are dramatically terrible. Like the bar super low, like wildly verbally abusive, she stabs him at a dinner party like is that the like, I feel like they're trying to sell us like that.
Netta (29:14)
Yeah, that's true.
Steph (29:30)
the norm in this world, which makes this couple so great because they're not verbally abusive and stabbing each other. Like, you know what I mean?
Netta (29:32)
Mmm.
don't
know, I mean, they kind of...
Okay, yeah, I feel like ⁓ I'm not able to defend them as well as I could.
Steph (29:47)
Hahaha
Netta (29:48)
I see how we're coming up against like all your criticisms here because what I want to say is like well They they do work together on this they turn to each other blah blah blah But like only after he has spied on her for a while All right, all right Yeah, why didn't he just wait, but now I'm actually like did I did I miss something? Did we get like a one-liner? explaining why he
Steph (29:58)
they don't. Yes, only after he's like lied and spied and gone behind a rack.
Netta (30:17)
Did all that?
Steph (30:19)
I I think if I had to guess, it's supposed to be explained away by the idea that he wants to help her.
Netta (30:28)
Right, so like maybe she did do these things, but even if so, he's on her side.
Steph (30:31)
And
he's trying to figure it out to then help her, maybe to help her without her knowing or whatever, but I don't buy it. I think that's kind of lame.
Netta (30:41)
Yeah,
yeah, it doesn't make a ton of sense. No, no.
Steph (30:45)
No, it doesn't. Like even
like these are like top tier spies. He's found a movie ticket, invited her to the movie and then is watching her reactions to see if she's reacting like she's never seen it.
I don't know. So yeah, like you see what I mean? Like there's just something.
Netta (30:57)
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, it's not solid, but if you want to...
Steph (31:05)
Yeah,
if you want to lean into it, be my guest. That's why I said like it is entertaining. It is entertaining. I just feel like it's one of those movies that like it is entertaining. I enjoyed it. It could have been really, really good. It could have been really, really intriguing had they done some of these plot points a little better, maybe flushed it out a little more and given a different score.
Netta (31:08)
Niamh, Niamh.
Hmm. Hmm. All right. Can we talk about some of the things that we I think we agreed that do work, which is like the style of it and the whole was it did you get kind of a 70s vibe? Was I just like the the like flowy kind of clothes and the I don't know, maybe I'm just
Steph (31:28)
Hmm. Hmm. ⁓
Yes. Yes.
70.
⁓
I read future.
Netta (31:54)
Future? Say more.
Steph (31:56)
I feel like I've seen those flowy clothes and like the very tailored, like masculine looks in a lot of like future movies where like they're in, people are in space. And like the way their house was set up with like the glass walls with the tree coming in the middle.
Like to me, it read very much like I have a note that those like couples like this are so weird. Like rich couples with no kids, like everything is very stylized and like gothic and over the top. Like why is she wearing this basically like drapery shirt? Beautiful. Beautiful. And he's like has the fleck, a fleck of whatever on his shirt. And he's like, I got to change. Like it's just it's so buttoned up.
Netta (32:28)
Mm.
Yeah,
I was watching up.
Steph (32:46)
and
so serious. And I feel like the 70s was wild and fun and like organic and flowy. And this is very like ⁓ sterile, like space.
Netta (32:56)
him, yeah. You know what though, I was
watching it with Eric and in the scene where he's cooking, Eric's like, that's very risky cooking with a white shirt.
Steph (33:06)
I'm not eating
as a son. It's
Anyways, ⁓ no, I didn't read 70s. You read 70s though. Mm. OK, yeah.
Netta (33:15)
I read 70s, I think in like the kind of earth tones ⁓
and some of the cuts, there were a few like pants with a little bit of flair.
Steph (33:25)
Yeah,
all these like these deep browns, like her hair bleeding into the like taupe, beigey shirts. And...
Netta (33:31)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Steph (33:33)
Yeah, the flowing of her hair and the shirt and then the pants. I see. OK, I see what you're saying.
Netta (33:38)
And I think, some 70s aesthetic is like very, like very bright and like very primary colors But I think there's also a version of it like the, that's like very warm, that kind of very warm, like the earthiness it. And like this movie was just so.
Steph (33:43)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, like a rafi. ⁓
Netta (33:56)
especially in their home, very warmly lit, very warm tones, like balanced out with a little bit of cool, you a little bit of green, like that kind of like, you know.
Steph (34:00)
Hmm.
Netta (34:06)
Rich green. I loved the colors in this movie. I did.
Steph (34:10)
I know, was, the
sets and the styling of the characters and the colors and all of those things was very slick. very thought out, very purposeful. Like even the heavy glasses, I loved his heavy glasses for some reason. like this is a serious person. Like he is not whimsical.
Netta (34:23)
Mm.
Steph (34:30)
He's...
Netta (34:31)
Yeah.
Steph (34:31)
He is wearing heavy glasses. I don't
I was going to say, do you think this movie would have been more interesting or not or doesn't matter actually, because they didn't really use technology that much? Like, I feel like it could have taken place in the 80s, 90s, 70s. the idea of like cell phones weren't really.
Netta (34:48)
Mm.
Steph (34:57)
⁓ a feature, some like aside from the satellite stuff, there wasn't much tech involved.
Netta (35:04)
That's right. mean, there were the drones, the satellite, like the spy tech, But yeah, you're right. And maybe that's also what contributed to the kind of retro feeling.
Steph (35:09)
Yeah, but not-
Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. Like,
like, I feel like they could have made a few changes and they could have easily set this in like the eighties. And like, to be honest, that would have been very interesting for some reason. Right. Like it would have been better.
Netta (35:24)
I love that idea.
Cool.
Steph (35:28)
don't know why I feel like it would have been better, but I think it would have been better because you know why? Because you have to rely on people more because the tech isn't there. So like they'd have to like that idea of trust and them trusting each other would be like really tight.
Netta (35:33)
You know what? Why?
Yeah, also, like my first thought was it would like untether them from this thing where, you know, he's being set up through this satellite, blah, blah, blah, whatever. And they could maybe, you know, it would give them a, you know, they would have to figure something else out, whatever.
Steph (35:56)
Yes, yeah.
Yeah.
Netta (36:05)
The 70s is also a good setting for crime. Like, I feel like most sort of period movies that are set in the 70s are crime movies.
Steph (36:10)
Hmm.
Netta (36:15)
I feel like a lot of movies set in the 70s have that mix of like fun criminal stuff.
Steph (36:21)
Yeah.
Netta (36:22)
and the kind of dark broodiness of that time. don't know. I feel like that could be a good era for this.
Steph (36:26)
Hmm
Yeah, I think so.
Like when I think about him, the scenes when he's fishing, like those really stand out to me as being very like old school.
Netta (36:35)
Yeah.
And I think he is kind of stylized on an older...
Steph (36:44)
Model of spy. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Netta (36:44)
generation of like English gentlemen, right? Yeah. Apparently,
to Eric, Pierce Brosnan's some of his ⁓ wardrobe where he had, I might get this wrong, a double-breasted jacket plus a vest underneath. Apparently that's overkill and he didn't need the vest. So.
Steph (37:03)
Mm-hmm.
Hahaha,
says Eric. Well.
Netta (37:09)
But just
to say that like, this kind of older, ⁓ this is not like your Silicon Valley tech startup, like bros showing up in shorts kind of a situation. This is like your English gentleman.
Steph (37:12)
What? Just a note.
Yes, this is like. Yes, old
love that Pierce Brosnan was in this, by the way. I love Pierce Brosnan so much.
Netta (37:31)
Yeah, yeah.
Okay, one scene that stood out and stayed with me, and one thing that I think is truly novel and original in this movie was the scene where Pierce Brosnan is at a restaurant and he gets that dish of the fish and the fish is still alive as he's eating it.
Steph (37:45)
⁓
Yeah! I know!
I was like, what the frick is going on here?
Netta (37:59)
What?
That was, I was like lying in bed and that haunted me. That haunted me. I was just like so grossed out. ⁓ that is such a great marker of a villain.
Steph (38:13)
I know, like, and I think she says what he's eating is illegal and I was dying for them to pan back to it. So I could like look at it again and see how did he plan on eating this? But then they don't. But yes, I know, I feel like that was very stylized for him. Like he's at this very slick, probably secretive like place to eat, eating this illegal thing that is alive.
Netta (38:23)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Yeah, I just thought like, I've never seen that before. Maybe it's been used before. I don't know. ⁓ But I don't think it's very common. Whereas like, I think food is, I mean, food is used so often in movies to like, you know, show different things. And like, ⁓ I just think it's a really brilliant, I thought that was great. I thought that was perfect.
Steph (38:50)
Mm-hmm.
It's always like, yeah.
Yeah.
Netta (39:02)
And
I think this is a truly, possibly a truly original contribution to American cinema or like, or like, or British cinema or whatever.
Steph (39:09)
⁓
I know it's true
because like food can say so much and I feel like the villains are always eating rare delicacies that are illegal here and illegal there. And it's like, ⁓ you know what I mean?
Netta (39:21)
Mmm.
Yeah,
yeah. Or they're taking other people's food. It's such a power move when they do that. That didn't happen here.
Steph (39:32)
I know, I know.
I was going to say, though, I had two more comments about this movie. One, I love movie the opening sequence following him. Loved, loved.
Netta (39:37)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, yeah. Also, I think added
to the sense of like the 70s a little bit with that club. I mean, not entirely, you know, I mean, it was obviously modern in some ways, but like, it still had that kind of like Studio 54 vibe a little bit, like just enough. Yeah.
Steph (39:47)
Yep. 100%. Yeah.
Mm hmm. Totally.
And it really like it does this really good trick of like really putting you in that character. And. Yeah, no.
Netta (40:03)
Mm hmm. And and sorry, just about the opening sequence.
Like I like when like on the screen it says Friday. And then, yes.
Steph (40:13)
Yes, so I was gonna say my other note is about
the like name cards or like the titles. I love when movies give you a nice little structure like that to follow. Like this is all gonna take place in the course of a week and we are going to tell you as the week goes on. On that note, I found the font to be a little too whimsical.
Netta (40:18)
Yeah.
Yes. Yeah.
Yes. Yes.
Yeah. I guess again, like this thing of like, what direction are they going? Yeah. Yeah.
Steph (40:40)
Yes, I found the font to
be way too whimsical. It bothered me. I wanted like a very serious, small toned font near the bottom of the screen. Versus like a Friday in like slanted like.
Netta (40:44)
Yeah, yeah, that's fair.
Mmm.
Yes. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah.
Steph (40:59)
Ha
Netta (40:59)
so you liked the opening sequence.
Steph (41:01)
Mm hmm. Very much so. But I feel like it really. It's one of those that like it puts you in his character so much, and then the way the movie evolves, like we've discussed, like it takes you out of his character and so like. But I like it was it was a strong open.
Netta (41:03)
Okay.
Liam.
Yeah, yeah, it was, it was.
Steph (41:20)
with a good structure right off the hop.
Netta (41:22)
Yeah, it had a lot of like really strong individual pieces.
Steph (41:25)
Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Yeah, but oh, like.
Netta (41:26)
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which, I mean, we watched, we watched the other, I don't know why I have such a hard time saying his name is Soderbergh. Is that, I ⁓ think, I don't know, I don't know what this is, yeah. What other movie of his, we watched,
Steph (41:38)
Soderbergh? I don't know.
Logan Lucky. Yes, that movie. Great movie. Fun, whimsical, delightful.
that's like the caper, like the ocean's loving great little caper.
Netta (41:57)
Yeah.
Even though I remember feeling like with Logan Lucky... ⁓
Like, I remember feeling like they thought they were hiring Steven Soderbergh, the director of Ocean's Eleven, and instead they got Steven Soderbergh, the director of Magic Mike. Like, that was also...
Steph (42:23)
Ha ha ha ha!
Netta (42:25)
Right? I just, felt like, like, I don't know. They just had like, to me, Ocean's Eleven, the fact that Ocean's Eleven and Magic Mike were directed by the same director, it's very strange. Like, they just have like, they have different ⁓ pace, right? It's like a different pace. They're just, they're different. They're very different movies. And I felt like Logan, Lucky, was more like how he directed Magic Mike.
Steph (42:35)
I know, I just realized that is crazy.
Very different. Yeah.
Yeah. All interesting.
Lucky.
Netta (42:53)
and less ed, but it was a movie that was written like an Ocean's Eleven. ⁓ So I don't
Steph (42:53)
⁓ maybe.
to be more like, something, yeah. I know what you're saying.
Netta (43:02)
I do feel like the problems here, it seems to me stem from the script, first of all, in the sense that like, to have like the plot and the themes and the characters actually align. There's just, there's a kind of misalignment between those things. It's like they're so close yet so far in the end. And so
Steph (43:17)
Mm-hmm.
know. What is that like?
Tonal choices though.
Netta (43:24)
And
I think, and then I think that's added to by the fact that there's also this misalignment between these two styles of spy movies ⁓ that are, yeah, also not meshing necessarily or not aligned as well as, you know, they might be. But I do kind of feel like the problems here start with the script.
Steph (43:33)
Yeah.
Netta (43:50)
is how.
Steph (43:50)
Yes,
I don't disagree and I think.
I think it could have been saved potentially in tone and execution.
Netta (43:58)
No, you know what it reminds me of? Okay, this is better than the movie that I'm about to name, but it kind of reminds me of, sorry, of juror. Also a word I have a hard time with. Juror.
Steph (44:12)
You
Netta (44:14)
Durer number two.
the Clint Eastwood movie that we watched and how that just didn't the sense that like there was like themes, like stuff just didn't really make sense, like motivations and blah, blah, blah. And like, it just didn't really make a lot of sense. And you just kind of felt like somebody wrote the script, they showed it to Clint Eastwood and they were like, look, it's okay, like we're gonna have.
Steph (44:17)
Yes. How so?
Yes. ⁓
Netta (44:38)
some more people come and like work on the script or we're going to put it through another draft and Clint Eastwood was like, no, no, no, don't worry about it. I'll just make it as it is. And this movie just kind of felt like it needed somebody and maybe, you know, like it just needed a few more drafts and it maybe needed somebody else to come in and do, I don't know. I don't know what process would have made it work, but like it just felt like it was the script was not there yet.
Steph (44:43)
It's Yeah.
Yeah.
It's-
Yeah, so I think I think a few things. think I thought of during number two as well when I watched it as like something that was like great idea, like great concept and just not executed like. And I do. I agree with you. I feel like that one was like the writer was like, hey, here's a draft one and he's like, action. ⁓
Netta (45:09)
Mmm.
You
Steph (45:25)
I feel like what I feel like, though, is like this one. I feel like the writing was there and then like, OK, maybe it's not draft one, maybe it's close to done. But then Steve Soderbergh started layering and like his soundtrack and stuff. And the writer was like, wait, wait, wait, like this is supposed to be like a dark thriller. And he was like, I do. Like, feel like.
It's the tone. It's both for me, like big time with this one. Like, yeah.
Netta (45:51)
Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, that's fair. Yeah, I think I think that sounds right.
Steph (46:01)
Yeah, that's so funny. I was going to say, I just looked up like spy thrillers, like couple spy thrillers. didn't, I just finished watching it. It's a TV show, but The Americans is excellent. If you want. Yeah. If you want like your, your couples, like a couple spy journey, but it's a TV show, right? So all the others are like action comedy, like, huh, huh. Cause I think it's hard to do well. Like as a genre.
Netta (46:11)
⁓ yeah, I haven't seen it.
Mm.
Yeah, Yeah, it is hard to do well.
in some ways it's easy because you have the tension in the relationship built in. So I'm not sure why it's hard to do well. I think what's definitely hard to do well is like a good marriage in,
Steph (46:33)
Mmhmm.
Netta (46:41)
that like basically what I wanted this movie to be, I think is hard to do well. ⁓
Steph (46:45)
Yeah
Netta (46:48)
But yeah, I think like a couple spy thriller where the couple are on the same side, but they're still tension. I don't know. I'm not sure how you do that. That's ⁓ a hard, that's a tough ask. That's a big ask. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Steph (46:56)
I know.
That's a... Yeah, we'll put that out there. All the writers. To give that a go. Because you need
like tension with what? If not within the marriage, with a villain. Is it the corporations that someone they're hunting down together? But then how is that different than like... Partners? Like, yeah, right?
Netta (47:15)
Yeah, yeah,
yeah. But I think like, I mean, if this is kind of an attempt at like exploring themes of marriage, isn't that so much of the situation you find yourself in, in a marriage where there's like problems, but like you're on the same team and there's tension, but like you're on the same team. Ideal, you know.
Steph (47:33)
Mm-hmm.
Yes.
Mm-hmm.
Netta (47:41)
that
Steph (47:41)
Yes.
Netta (47:42)
you're kind of striving for that. ⁓
Steph (47:45)
and tension
in how to navigate those challenges. That's where the tension comes from.
Netta (47:48)
Yeah. Yeah. Right.
right. Yeah. Like how, how do you make decisions together and all of that? Right. I mean,
Steph (47:58)
Mm-hmm.
Netta (47:59)
I don't know, I feel like it's actually not, it's not that, I wanna say it's not that hard, but obviously it is. I mean, it's about, I feel like you can write a movie in which like ⁓ a marriage is kind of pushed to the edge from the stresses of both being spies. I mean, that's not that hard without them being against each other.
Steph (48:05)
I know, I was like, I dare you to finish your sentence. ⁓
No!
Netta (48:26)
That's not such a crazy idea. Like that's not.
Steph (48:26)
Yes.
Yes, I was
going say, you know, like where that is interesting would be interesting if they had like. Like ops that were against each other or. Like contradictory goals, but like the same. Yeah, you know what I mean? Like we're both running this off, but like you're supposed to save something and I'm supposed to destroy it or whatever.
Netta (48:39)
Right.
Right,
yeah.
Steph (48:51)
And
like maybe that comes from like spy movies if they're in different agencies or whatever. Then why would they be marrying?
Netta (48:57)
Yeah, I think like if they're within the same agency, but then that's where you can have like the kind of conspiracy stuff come in, right? Where one of the teams, ⁓ for sure, like, or like one of the teams has gone rogue and they don't know, like they're kind of being pulled along by like a boss who has like some crazy plan and they don't, you know, they don't know or like, ⁓ okay, this isn't, this isn't exact.
Steph (49:01)
Why would they have contradictions?
yes, different security clearances!
Yeah.
Netta (49:25)
But ⁓ God, I can't remember the name again. So sad. ⁓ Gene Hackman, Denzel Washington on a sub mutiny. It's not called the sub. Some of all fears, no. No. Crimson Tide. Like in...
Steph (49:33)
The sub! The sub! We were... No, and not Hunt for Red October. It's Crimson Tide. Crimson Tide. Yes, another...
Netta (49:50)
Yeah, in the way that like there you have two people where like one is the hero and one is the villain for sure. But like, I mean, it gets complicated with that one. Maybe this isn't good analogy. But my point is, that like, like one is wrong and one is right in the end, but you can see both sides of it. Even though like Denzel Washington is like, you know, you don't listen, but like.
Steph (50:07)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
So are you saying like that movie
would check this box for you if they were a married couple?
Netta (50:18)
No, no, that would be insane. No,
that would be way over the top. I guess just in the way that like you can have tension, you can have like tension between characters without and one of them being a villain without one of them being like, you know, mustache twirling, bad intent. Yeah.
Steph (50:37)
Yeah, like totally
You could have no, but you could have like,
like two people on opposing sides and just like have differing opinions about like the morally correct. Like way to go. Yeah. And that's where you could get mentioned.
Netta (50:48)
Yeah, about what the right course of action is. And isn't that...
and doesn't that happen in marriages all the time? So, you know, just put that in a spy thriller, I guess.
Steph (50:54)
Yeah!
I love that you're
like, you just want like a, like I love how badly you want like a, not like a rom-com, but like a solid romantic, like spy movie. I don't know why you want to throw, like everyday marriages suffer under the tension of just normal life. And you want to, you just want to throw sticks of dynamite of spiness.
Netta (51:04)
I do. Now that this is...
Yeah.
This is why you can't have kids. I was so glad that they didn't have kids in this movie. I thought that was a good choice.
Steph (51:25)
I know you kept saying like
the dynamic changes completely. Why do you think that?
Netta (51:29)
Not I am. think that their dynamic does not make sense with kids because their dynamic is one where each of them comes first. That does not apply when you have kids. It's like I think if there were kids in this in this movie, like even if they were adult children or whatever, they would be just so like they would have to be just like such afterthoughts that I'm glad they just didn't do it at all.
Steph (51:40)
Yeah.
No.
Yeah. I don't disagree.
Netta (51:58)
Yeah, anyway. Bam. Okay, so yeah. It was good. It was all right. It was okay. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway. Yeah.
Steph (51:59)
Yeah.
It was fine. It ⁓ was good. Only an hour
This movie, Black Bag, was very highly rated on Rotten Tomatoes by critics, which is interesting, but not by not by viewers. Not super. It was like fine. It was like medium. One of the one of the reviews I read that locked the choice because you said you were in the mood for like something that was like fine was someone's review was like it was good, but not great. I was like, great. Check.
Netta (52:12)
Yeah. Yeah. I can. Interesting. Right.
You know what, this I feel like goes to my, what I said at the beginning, which is it feels like, like watching it, like the experience of watching the movie was like good, but like you could write, like you could write an essay about this movie because of like the themes and the, the, know, blah, blah, you know, all of this kind of stuff. ⁓ Like the lighting, like all of these kinds of textual elements are there.
Steph (52:47)
Yeah! Yes!
Yeah.
Mm-hmm. ⁓
Netta (52:58)
So the element,
what you could write about it is richer than the experience of watching it. I feel like what you're saying about critical versus audience score validates that. No, no, no.
Steph (53:04)
Yes.
I know I had one more thought, but if we've passed it, fine. just
the, I wanted to ask your opinion of the ending where like someone dies, like they shoot what's his face. Cause it just seemed like totally very different than the rest of the movie. But I loved when the woman was like, there's a new rug. I was like, ⁓ someone's going to get shot.
Netta (53:26)
Yeah
I
I feel like they've set up somebody that like they've introduced guns. They've talked about like, you know, oh, we're playing a game. Oh, is there going to be blood? Well, if we do it right, or is it going to be messy?
Steph (53:40)
I know it
was too whimsical though. I thought, I don't know, I felt like more of a strangling could be appropriate. No.
Netta (53:47)
No, ⁓ God, that's,
Strangling is so dark.
Steph (53:51)
I know.
And more like tonally. I just really wanted a dark spy thriller, I think, with like under the cover of darkness, stranglings.
Netta (53:57)
think maybe, yeah.
I wonder if maybe it's a similar thing that happened with like that point where they turned to each other and we were saying that that could have been such a turning point or it could have been much more impactful if the tension had built up. And I wonder if ⁓ we had gotten to the point, to that point where ⁓ Blanchett shoots him and like.
Steph (54:13)
Yeah. Yeah. It just wasn't as. Yeah.
Netta (54:29)
I felt like I understood better what happened.
Steph (54:32)
Ha ha ha
ha ha ha!
Netta (54:33)
if it might have been, but I don't know. I will say I did find that moment to be like pretty punchy.
Steph (54:34)
Yeah, stronger.
Hmm, that's fair. I guess I like a like a secret spy. Like he leaves thinking he's got away with it or something and then he ends up like with a bag over his head. In the boot of a car, like she says.
Netta (54:48)
Mmm.
Yeah. Yeah,
it's I feel like this this works well with the element of this movie that it's written like a play. Right. But again, it's kind of like it oscillates between that and not being that.
Steph (54:59)
Yeah, that's fair. Yeah.
It
was just like loud in your face when a lot of the movie's like a little more subtle.
Netta (55:10)
Yeah, which is why I think it kind of like it was it was punchy. I don't know. I was I was into it. And I think like, yeah, I will stand by that moment. I think also the young woman who's had nothing to do with the actual conspiracy plot, whatever her reaction of just total shock, I think kind of helped to highlight it, I guess. Yeah.
Steph (55:14)
Yeah, that's fair. You're OK. OK, yeah.
Yes!
Yes, I love that.
I did like that a lot. I like the juxtaposition. I think of like her treating a lot of this as a game with and forgetting maybe like you're in this dangerous world. And so I did like that feature.
Netta (55:42)
Mm.
Right. Yeah.
What did you think of the therapist character?
Steph (55:52)
I don't know. I like feel like...
Netta (55:53)
Yeah.
Steph (55:56)
It could have been more depth there, maybe. Because to your point, like her role in all of this, like, I think I understand it, but.
Netta (55:59)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Steph (56:07)
I don't know. I don't buy it.
Netta (56:08)
I
feel like having a therapist, like having these people go to therapy sessions, I think it can be very corny. And it didn't lean into that and it didn't overcome it. So it didn't feel super corny or super campy or super, but it just kind of felt like cliche, I guess, I don't know, and not super interesting.
Steph (56:16)
Mm-hmm.
You know what?
I know I
had this thought, I think when one of them in a session maybe came Blanchette, because they've painted certain characters as being like really, really good, right? Like very smart, very intelligent, very crafty. when Cate Blanchette is in there with her, I'm like, you're not good enough to like, to be working with, like, I just feel they didn't make her strong enough as like ⁓ a presence to overcome.
Netta (56:47)
Hmm.
Right.
Steph (56:55)
Yeah, to your point, like they didn't overcome this idea that this person should be there to be doing these things. You know what mean?
Netta (57:02)
Yeah, yeah.
Steph (57:03)
well, what do you feel like next?
Netta (57:05)
Well, it's my pick. So I feel like I should ask you. No, I should ask you, because I need to take it into consideration when I choose the movie. What are you in the mood for?
Steph (57:07)
It is! That's why I asked you! Oh! Hmm...
I feel like this is one of those situations where I signed up for like a certain genre and I didn't get my fill. But that is fine and we can move on.
Netta (57:26)
But I mean, would you be into like a spy thriller that is actually a spy thriller? Okay, okay, that's good.
Steph (57:31)
Very much so. I feel like…
Netta (57:46)
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