Marie Antoinette (2006)
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Transcript
Steph (00:00)
They very much come across as like spoiled rich kids to me. Right. Like they're like their predecessors are the ones who built these empires.
And they are the product of that. And they never got taught. And so when they come into power, they don't know what they're doing.
Netta (00:21)
welcome to Popcorn Moms, the podcast for parents who love their kids most, but loved movies first. We're your cohost, Netta.
Steph (00:29)
and Stephanie, two movie lovers turned moms. Join us as we reconnect with the things that make us whole outside of parenthood, namely watching movies.
Today's movie is Marie Antoinette a 2006 film about the retelling of France's iconic but ill-fated queen Marie Antoinette from her betrothal and marriage to Louis XVI at 14 to her reign as queen at 19, the end of her reign as queen and ultimately the fall of Versailles.
Directed by Sofia Coppola, it stars Kirsten Dunst in the title role Schwartzman as Louis 16th in an ensemble cast. This movie was Netta's pick. So why did you choose this movie
Netta (01:06)
I think after watching A Few Good Men,
I wanted something that was like a drama but had like kind of a light touch or some humor in it.
Steph (01:12)
Mmm. Yeah, like a, like a,
yeah, like a fun throw.
Netta (01:17)
Yeah, yeah. this was a movie I had not seen before and I've wanted to see for a long time. I think I was in the mood for something a little bit girly, I guess.
Steph (01:21)
Ooh.
Netta (01:27)
was just watching a bunch of trailers and I watched the trailer for this and I just got so excited.
Steph (01:31)
I love that! Yes, it was a very cheeky choice. I had seen it before.
Netta (01:36)
Mmm.
So what did you think about it?
Steph (01:39)
⁓ I, I, no, wait, what did you think about it? I was never having seen it.
Netta (01:44)
Um,
yeah, I, I loved it. I loved it. I loved it so much more than I thought I would too. I, found it actually quite moving by the end.
Steph (01:45)
You go first. ⁓ yeah, she loved it.
Really?
Netta (01:56)
loved it. I thought it was so fun, but also very grounded, but also very big and outrageous. What about you?
Steph (02:02)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Okay. Yes, I also enjoyed it quite thoroughly. I was very excited about this pick because I was also in the mood for something that had like, ⁓ like serious toned, like a serious kind of topic, I guess, but like a fun way of telling it or a different kind of like a different kind of edge to how that story is told. And so was very excited to watch it as well. More excited than I thought it would, because I have seen it before, but I only remembered a couple of things about it.
Netta (02:28)
Mm.
Steph (02:36)
And yeah, I enjoyed it very much. I wouldn't say like, ⁓ I loved it, per se. Maybe I did. I think it like checks that box really, really well. Like if you're in the mood for this type of movie, it like excels and is very fun. And so, yes, I quite enjoyed myself.
Netta (02:39)
I'm tired.
OK, first of all, think just the music.
Steph (03:00)
Yes, that was a big point I had to discuss with you.
Netta (03:03)
the first, second of the movie where the music starts, you've got the credits, it cuts to this shot, this this just tableau of her, just kind of looking at the camera being pampered and being, and then cut back to the credits.
Steph (03:15)
Yes. Being cheeky. Yes. ⁓
Netta (03:23)
was just, it was just so punchy
Steph (03:25)
I have a theory to propose about the music. I will, I will, but let me first talk about the music. There was something about the music, I don't know, is there like a genre for this where it's like...
Netta (03:29)
Tell me.
Steph (03:39)
a historical movie or like something very serious, but it's like brought to kind of the modern day, like teen world, like teen audience. Like the whole movie, because of the play of like the colors and the way she acts with her friends and the music, it very much reminded me of like a teen movie from like the 90s. And the music was a big part of that. I found the music also to silly word, very punchy. Like the songs that were chosen had these really strong beats to them.
I was gonna say my theory about the music, okay, I wrote it down, is that it followed her mood. I don't know if I'm completely off base here or not, but listen to this. So yes, the music was very modern, like to the time now. And so the music really picked up for me when she starts having fun with I Want Candy. Like up until that point, if I recall, it's kind of like...
Netta (04:13)
Mmm.
Steph (04:34)
that classical kind of music in the background. Like it's not really fun yet per se. And then as soon as she starts having fun with her friends and like leaning into like the royalty aspect of her life, starts spending money, I Want Candy comes in in a big way. It's poppy, it's punchy. It really sets the tone. But then that music kind of carries through and then it goes away again after her daughter is born and taken away from her.
The music slowly fades out, like that kind of modern poppy music really fades out. It comes back when she starts having the affair with Von Fersen. it comes back very punchy and then it goes away again when he leaves and it does not return.
Netta (05:04)
Hmm.
Interesting.
Steph (05:16)
I
know, cause I really noticed when like, I want candy comes in, it's like, ⁓ like things are like, like happening now. Like this is fun now. And then when it leaves, like the tone of the movie kind of really changed. But then it came back again when he showed up.
Netta (05:28)
Hmm. Yeah.
Interesting. I mean, I feel like, that I want Candy song so perfect. Like at the beginning of that scene, before the song comes in, when they're looking at the fabrics and looking at the clothing and blah, blah, it kind of feels like, like I remember writing down, it's like, this is like Candy, just in terms of the...
Steph (05:36)
Mm-hmm.
Yes.
⁓
yeah, interesting.
Netta (05:53)
in terms of
the lushness of it, the sweetness of it, the over the top, it's all... And kind of this childish glee about it. But also, it's like a kid in a candy store, exactly. ⁓ And then you also see her and all her friends with these plates of actual candy and the heads of champagne, blah, blah. And then the song comes in.
Steph (05:57)
Yeah
It's in a candy store.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, the bonbons! Yeah?
Yeah.
Netta (06:19)
And it's kind of like the sense that like, ⁓ I think this is a point where she is getting very frustrated with like her and Louis not having sex. it was almost like a sense of like, this is just not happening.
maybe it was after like her nephew is like the fact that like her sister-in-law has a baby boy before her and that's very embarrassing. I think it might've been around then. anyways, but just this kind of a sense that like, okay, so all of these energies and all of this like ⁓ passion and all of this glee and all of this pleasure is being directed to in this direction now to the clothes and the candy and the, and all of that.
Steph (06:39)
Yeah. Yes.
Mm-hmm.
Netta (07:01)
And so when I Love Candy came on, was just like, it just felt so perfect.
Steph (07:05)
Oh,
that is, yeah, I didn't like think about that necessarily, but it is. were like, like to me, it was like, oh, like she's got all this money and she could just sit there now and have people like parade in front of her with like cloths and different jewels and this, that and the other. But you're right. It's like kidney candy store, right? Like their eyes were wide. She's got a girlfriend there. They're picking things out and like with not a care in the world.
Netta (07:28)
Mm-mm. Yeah.
Steph (07:29)
Yeah,
great. Yeah, it's a very good song choice. was one, the one that comes on when she's with Von Ferris and for the first time that song had like a very similar beat, I think to I Want Candy. Like it's very punchy as well. And like, that's what I mean, like isn't there...
Netta (07:43)
interesting.
Steph (07:47)
like a genre name for movies like this that are like old timey but then the music is very, you said it once like it's very pop culture music.
Netta (07:54)
Yeah, I don't know. I don't know about a term. I mean, it's anachronistic, which is not a genre movie term, but just like, it just means things that are kind of out of time, like that are not. So like, I feel like a lot of times that's just used to point out when movies make mistakes.
Steph (08:05)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Netta (08:13)
know, there's like this anachronism here. But I think
with Marie Antoinette, like this movie is so much about how she's a girl, really. And Louis being this little boy, so cute. I did not expect.
Steph (08:25)
Yes, yes, yes, yes.
Yeah
Netta (08:35)
I did not expect
to like his character, to be honest, and I did.
Steph (08:38)
He's like,
oh yeah. I know I was gonna say charming, but he himself is not charming. There's a charm about him, maybe? A quirk, a charm about him. He seems like a nice boy. I did not say man. He's a nice boy who likes to make his keys. He's like skittish around the ladies. I think the way, I guess we, let's talk about him for a second.
Netta (08:43)
Yeah, yeah, that's a good way putting it.
Hahaha
Mm-hmm.
Steph (09:03)
The way
that they show him just being completely not ready for the responsibilities thrust upon him, I love, they do it in such a subtle way. When they're all, after Louis XIV has passed and he is now in charge, they show a scene of him where all his advisors are kind of saying, this is what's wrong with the budget and what should we do and should we send it over here? And he's like, oh, I don't know, do whatever. And then he picks up a scroll.
and like uses it as like a telescope and is like looking around the room at like these very serious men. ⁓ And it's like, my God.
Netta (09:33)
Yeah.
Steph (09:39)
But like, that's just a little subtle throw to like, you are completely not at all up for this job, buddy. Yeah, but he's like a sweet boy otherwise. Do you know, is there something he had, like a condition? Why didn't he want to have sex?
Netta (09:39)
Yeah.
No.
I don't know.
kind of took the implication in the movie to be one, just that he's like,
like a little boy, even though he's not a little boy, but like he is, and it's just kind of scary and weird, but also maybe that he's gay. think that was kind of how it was played.
Steph (10:06)
Hmm. Would have been like.
Yeah, I think that's how they play the movie. I don't know if that's true to life. He was like, I think he was like her age, like 16, 17. Like he would have been like full of all sorts of desires.
Netta (10:17)
I don't
Yeah, I think when it comes to him, I think I appreciated that like, yeah, he was also shown as, really as a little boy in the way that she was shown as a girl. And the movie really is about her and girlhood. And I think some of the,
Steph (10:33)
Yeah. Yes, yes.
Mm-hmm.
Netta (10:44)
those anachronisms, like all the ways that this feels very modern and probably not so true to the time, I think are usually in the service of...
Steph (10:51)
Mm-hmm.
Netta (10:56)
having things there that are recognizably girly as in young girl experience ⁓ that are kind of true to more, you know, modern times, whatever. But I think it does kind of speak to maybe Sofia Coppola's ideas about like some kind of universal experience of girlhood and what that is. Because I feel like so many of her movies are about that.
Steph (11:00)
Yes.
Yes.
Netta (11:23)
I think it just, added a lot that it seemed like he was on a kind of similar path, even if we didn't, we weren't in it with him so much. But I feel like he starts in a similar place of being a very, you know, a little boy. And by the end of it, he's in a similar place of being an adult, a young adult.
Steph (11:33)
Yes.
Mm-hmm.
Netta (11:46)
who is very unsure and not very good at what he's supposed to be doing, but still actually kind of trying and starting to come into his own. Not that he'll really have a chance to. ⁓ But I think you see them actually at similar stages of maturity in all ways, except maybe when it comes to sex. But otherwise, I think they kind of have a parallel track.
Steph (11:46)
Yes. Yeah, not good at what he's supposed to be doing.
Yes.
Yes.
Netta (12:15)
it helps their relationship make sense by the end, which is, yeah.
Steph (12:18)
yes.
I know. Yeah, I was going to say, like, they're both like it's like watching children who are thrust together and then they're trying to navigate kind of like being like when you say like young girl, like to me, it's like tweenie, like it like 10 to 13. Like that's kind of how she comes across a lot and the things she does. And then like as the story goes on, it's more of like that teen and she gets interested in like sex and sexuality and ooh, but he's just like
Netta (12:32)
Yeah. Yeah.
Steph (12:46)
not quite there and she's trying to navigate that with her girlfriends and ⁓ yeah so they're I love that they are on this parallel track because I think it gets rid of the idea of any like weird creepy grossness which was so prevalent at the time like they're they're both kind of like just kids trying to like figure out what they're supposed to be doing together ⁓
Netta (12:59)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, Yeah, that's true.
So I'm sorry if my cat's meows are coming through.
Steph (13:12)
No, it's okay!
Netta (13:15)
Now be quiet, we're recording.
Steph (13:17)
It's like, no, it is very much like if you give like two kind of like tweens teens, like the keys to the kingdom, like what will they do? Right. Like he's going to spend his mornings, like hanging out with his buddies, going hunting, and she's going to spend the days with her gal pals going shopping and spending all the money and all this. Right.
Netta (13:20)
He does not care.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, for sure. I think that there's like a moment for them when his father, the king, dies and now he is king and she is queen and they just look at each other like, we are so fucked.
Steph (13:49)
and
Mm-hmm.
We're too young. Yeah.
Like, oh shit, this just got real.
Netta (14:01)
Yeah, like, yeah, they look at each other like, this is bad. This is a bad situation actually. And ⁓ us too, this is no good. And we too are the only people in this and we're in it together. And I feel like there's kind of a moment there where they become actually more of a team, even if they aren't like, you know, married couple in the way we would think that that is supposed to look.
Steph (14:07)
Mm-hmm. This is no good.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Looks? Yeah.
Netta (14:28)
I think there is still
a sense that like they are partners or they're kind of together in this. ⁓ That I think really anchors then that second half of the movie when they are king and queen. And especially as things start to go south.
Steph (14:42)
Mm hmm.
Yes, I was going to say, I think you get more of this like, like it seemed like she's the more extrovert and he's a little bit more introvert. And then near the end, when things go south, you do get this like team idea. Even like when she's kind of living her like farm era and he comes to see her and is like, come home. And she's like, OK, like they have this cute little thing going on. But then when things go to shit, can I swear?
Netta (15:10)
I think we should just say what we want to say
Steph (15:12)
Okay. When things go bad,
when things go not good, and she's like, my place is beside my husband. It's interesting because you see this like loyalty and suddenly it's like, this is my husband and I am his wife and I should stand beside him. But it's not that it feels empty. Like she means it, but it just is like so anyway, it doesn't seem super grounded in this solid foundation of like a couple. I don't know.
Netta (15:39)
Yeah, fair enough. that did not... Yeah.
Steph (15:40)
Like it's almost
like they believe that, but like, I don't know because.
I don't know, guess with maybe what they're, what am I trying to say? With what they show in the movie, it's like suddenly she's like, ⁓ shit, like my place is here beside my husband. Yeah, yeah, it's almost like she has to like ⁓ get herself jazzed for it. And he's like, yeah, yeah, you're my queen. Like, let's stay here together, yeah. Like as the palace burns down around them. ⁓ And that's like, they're like, to your point, like that's them being a team, that's them being together.
blaming one another. They're not like pointing fingers. They're not saying like this is your fault. is what you should have done something. The children are here. What's wrong with you? Like you could see it going that way. But instead they decide to like be a little floundering team together.
Netta (16:28)
Yeah, I mean, it's interesting that you say that because I think in that moment where he says, I'm going to stay here at the palace, which is the brave thing to do, which is not a quality you see, maybe stupid, but definitely brave, can be both.
Steph (16:38)
Mm-hmm.
Is it?
Hehehehehaha!
Netta (16:48)
But I think that's the thing, it seems or it could seem out of character for him. And then for her to say, my place is here with my husband could seem out of character for her. For some reason, it worked for me. Like for some reason I accepted that, it made sense. I'm not sure why 100 % because I think maybe there's like,
Steph (17:05)
Yeah, yeah.
Netta (17:14)
you see their more mature qualities maybe come out, especially after the death of one of their child, which I was not prepared for. I did not know. I didn't know. But I think that you see, I don't know. I don't know why, but I think they kind of built up to it enough. And I think like,
Steph (17:23)
I know. Yeah.
Oh no, I knew that they'd lost kids, Aw, I know.
Netta (17:40)
For me, maybe it was that their relationship.
made sense, which is a very hard thing, I think, to pull off given how unconventional their relationship is in some ways ⁓ as a marriage. But I think I just I bought into it, I felt like that kind of anchored it to that in that moment, it made sense to me that he would say I'm staying, and she would stay with him.
Steph (17:49)
Hmm.
Yeah, and sorry,
I believe it too. I'm all there for it as well. Like I think it makes sense for their track. I guess there's like, it seems like, and maybe going back to our kind of like teen, young adult reference, it seems like two teens who are saying like, yeah, yeah, yeah, let's stay here. That's the brave thing to do without really understanding what's going on around.
Netta (18:20)
Right.
Steph (18:24)
is like how I kind of read it.
Netta (18:25)
I think at that point, maybe it's that they don't understand the gravity of it, but it seems like they do enough to say, no, everybody needs to be evacuated to safety.
Steph (18:30)
I think. Yeah.
Yeah.
Netta (18:37)
But there's, think.
Steph (18:39)
I don't know. There's
something about it, even when they say that, it's like, I don't know. There's something about it, like all of a sudden they're like stepping into these like leadership roles, but there's something like, there's not a lot of depth there. Like they're not making these decisions out of like calculated like this, like to date, like to that point, they have been like horrific rulers, right? Like spending all the money, blah, blah. It's not in this moment that they suddenly are like,
Netta (18:59)
Yeah.
Steph (19:03)
great and like understand the gravity. No, like they're just, I think, going with, like, I can't remember if they suggested or someone else says like, we need to get out of here and they're like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Send all these people away. I don't know. I believe their connection together. I believe that they want to stay together. I think they're like, I think it's brave of him when he's like, I'm not a fugitive king. I'm not going to leave. That's very brave and honorable. And it's like,
What? Like nothing throughout this movie has suggested this of you? But I think it's like maybe it's coming from a place of foolishness for me versus bravery.
Netta (19:37)
fair enough. I guess maybe one of the things that is
pretty interesting about this movie is, especially her relationship with power, and you see these sort of different, the kind of ebbs and flows of her power and her status at Versailles. ⁓ But I think one thing that happened to this movie, or one thing that doesn't happen is like,
Steph (19:56)
Mm-hmm.
Netta (20:01)
She never consolidates her power. I mean, she goes in there and she's like in very, ⁓ a pretty precarious situation in the sense of like, yes, she's the Dauphine and everybody's bowing to her, but also everybody's looking down at her pretty clearly.
Steph (20:12)
Mm-hmm, yeah.
Mm hmm. Yes, there's gossip
and judgment.
Netta (20:21)
Yeah, and those side eyes and blah, But ⁓ at the same time, and then as like they're not having sex, she's not getting pregnant and it just more and more precarious. And I think like one of the things I think the movie did really well was show like what she's missing out on in terms of her own like
by not, because she's not having kids, she has to follow the rules as they are already set out. There's not a lot she can deviate from it. She has no status or I mean, she has, she does have status, she's the Dauphin, but like, she does not have exactly, yes. And then when she has a kid, then she can kind of,
Steph (20:50)
Mmm.
Mm-hmm.
Yes. No.
Yeah, she doesn't have power there. Yeah, it's like empty for a time. Yeah.
Netta (21:15)
you know, exit this world to some extent. But the problem is, that like, while she had influence, while she had, like, she did not consolidate that power. She was just able to exit. She was able to not worry about it for a while. But like, that's not what she actually needed to do was like secure herself. And she didn't understand that.
Steph (21:17)
Yes.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah, like, yes,
yes.
Netta (21:40)
So it's like,
I guess just to come back to what you're saying, like I think what makes it, I think difficult to maybe accept that now the king is like, no, I'm not gonna be a fugitive king, is that he doesn't seem to understand power either. We have no reason to see that. And so it's kind of like, and maybe that's why he's staying because he doesn't know how to calculate the right move.
Steph (21:56)
No, I don't think either of them do.
Yeah, like
I think he doesn't know what to do.
Netta (22:07)
Yeah, maybe, Yeah. And he just kind of sees it as fleeing, as losing without really understanding that actually this is the right next move. It was all of this is a long winded way of saying that like,
Steph (22:18)
No!
Netta (22:19)
You're probably right.
Steph (22:20)
Yeah, I was gonna say like, I feel like you're agreeing with me. But yes, I think, We're watching two people who, when Louis XVI dies, they have a kingdom at their feet and they have no clue how to rule and no clue how to wield the power they have, how to use it. And especially this movie, the way they portray him.
Netta (22:26)
I am now, yes.
Steph (22:43)
Like she could just rule the roost if she had any sense of what she was doing there. Right? Like, like you said, instead of disappearing after she's had this child, she could stay and like really shape things and really be of influence because he's not like he's like, ⁓ yeah, okay, good idea, dear. Like, ⁓ okay, good idea. He's got no idea what's going on. And then when things go bad.
They don't know how to move thereafter.
Netta (23:11)
You sort of get a taste of what that might look like through ⁓ like Louis's father, I guess Louis the 14th, ⁓ his grandfather, Louis the 14th, ⁓ through his mistress.
Steph (23:22)
It's his grandfather. ⁓
Yes, Madame DuBerri. Yes.
Netta (23:30)
Duber, ooh.
Who I thought was like a really interesting character and I thought was they were gonna go a different way with her. Like I thought it was gonna be where Marie Antoinette like doesn't like her but it's kind of like intrigued and blah blah blah. And then ended like going to her and then whatever her name is gives her advice and tells her how to seduce. Like I thought that's where that was going. It was not, that's not where it went.
Steph (23:37)
yes!
Mmm. ⁓
In awe of her, know she has this influence and...
Yes, I know. I thought that too. Yeah. Nope.
Nope.
Netta (23:59)
⁓ but I mean, she's somebody who really embodies that idea that like sex is power. And she is present in the King's, you know, political meeting and influences decision-making and blah, blah. But then at the end of the, but then you also see the limits of that because when he's on his death bed and needs his last rights and he's told.
Steph (24:11)
Yep.
Yep, absolutely.
Netta (24:24)
You know, he's not going to get his last rights if he has a mistress, he sends her away. She's gone. She might be taken care of, but like she also was not actually able to consolidate her power either in the end. she was always a mistress. She was never accepted and she was on the outs by the, you know, middle of the movie.
Steph (24:28)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
No. No.
you
So you see like one form of power there, right? Like she figures out how to have the ear of the king, ⁓ but it's not forever. Like it's it's temporary based on the king.
I thought she was like, all the women are gossiping and blah, blah. And I thought that Marie Antoinette was going to like, kind of be like, hmm, like what she got that I don't have and kind of sidle up with her. But I think we see the girlness in Marie Antoinette come out more in that she like falls into the gossipy trap. Like the, I don't want to say girlness, that's not gossipy, but like the, the innocent like.
new person, new country, she kind of falls in with the first people that kind of show her kindness
just to say like the I kind of mentioned it earlier like the parallels of this movie to like a little teen movie or something like were so evident to me like when she comes to France in the court and like she like that fish out of water I guess thing and she's looking for like a little gal pal like. There.
where I guess they're in like a service, maybe a church service. And she sees the older woman sleeping and she like elbows the girl beside her and they're like giggling together. And then them looking, I love this scene so much when she's on her way to France and they open the picture of Louis with her girlfriends and they're giggling at it. Like, oh, what do you think? What do you think? Like, it's such a modern day thing. They're not doing that back then, surely. Are they?
Netta (26:07)
had the same thought actually watching it. Because again, some of it I think is like, is about what's, you know, we imagine to be like universal about being a 14 year old girl. Yeah. ⁓
Steph (26:08)
Hahaha
Like, yeah, like girlhood, yeah. They really like,
yes, they applied it so well to this movie.
Netta (26:25)
Yeah,
Steph (26:26)
And I was going say this when we were talking about them. They very much come across as like spoiled rich kids to me. Right. Like they're like their predecessors are the ones who built these empires.
And they are the product of that. And they never got taught. Sorry. Now we're jumping back to that topic. I did want to that. Yeah. Like they're like, what do they call it? Like second or third generation. Right. Like second generation wealth or generation wealth. Like they don't learn the same things. They don't learn how to rule well. They don't know how to do the financials. They don't know these things because it's something that was taken for granted. They didn't they weren't taught. And so when they come into power, they don't know what they're doing. They're vastly ill prepared. And instead of like
Netta (26:44)
Totally. Yeah.
Steph (27:04)
getting their shit together. They just keep the party rages. The party rages on. Or she recedes to her farm.
Netta (27:13)
No, that's such a good point. mean, I feel like that's super interesting because you do see that older generation of power brokers and power movers. So, ⁓ Louis' grandfather, the king, ⁓ her, ⁓ her mother, who, if I recall correctly, she basically, she married off like all her kids to, to royalty or something. Yeah.
Steph (27:21)
Yeah.
Yep.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
⁓ to like... ⁓
Netta (27:42)
you see her brother come in and he seems to understand things as well, like.
Steph (27:44)
Yep. He's very well
to do. Like he knows what's up. Like it seems like he's had the tutelage and gets it more.
Netta (27:50)
Yeah.
But for whatever reason, these are two of, you know, the their generation who did not take an interest in it are not suited to it. ⁓ You know, maybe would have made good, you know, lady of the court or whatever, but was not suited for actual responsibility or leadership or, you know, rule or whatever. ⁓
Steph (28:00)
Mm-hmm.
⁓ yes! ⁓
Mm hmm. Yes, the burdens
of ruling. ⁓ No, she wants to chill. She wants to say that the scene, think, like just as they like if we think about her as like this journey from like child tween hood to young adulthood, like.
Netta (28:18)
The Bernans are, yeah, they're not, she's not taking that sit on.
Thanks.
Steph (28:40)
the idea of like the poker and the champagne and the partying and the drugs like that all starts to come out right as she starts having it so like that's what she wants to do and the the masquerade ball I love that scene so much it was very like a 2000s teen movie prom moment to me
right after that, that the king dies.
Netta (29:00)
Yeah, that's true. Yeah.
Steph (29:01)
Which
is supposed to signal like, those days are done for you. But no, they rage on.
Netta (29:08)
Yeah. It's actually, it's interesting that you, I don't know, what you just said kind of sparked this of like, on the one hand, this movie is supposed to be about like girls and girls growing up. so like on the one hand, it's like this every girl situation. And then on the other hand, it's Marie Antoinette.
Steph (29:24)
Mm-hmm.
I know. Yep. Yes.
Netta (29:33)
very singular figure in history.
I mean, not just like a rich girl situation, but like a queen at a time of great political unrest, blah, blah. Like it is an interesting pairing because I feel like you're watching it and it feels like so close yet so far.
Steph (29:43)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Yes. What you're saying is so, let's, let's follow this. Cause what, what you said just made me think about this idea of like, think Sofia Coppola set out to make a coming of age movie? Like I want to make a coming of age movie about a young girl who's like finding herself, blah, blah, blah. And then she was like, let's lay that on top of this epic tale of Marie Antoinette and see what we can do. Like that's kind of how it reads, right? Am I wrong?
Netta (30:23)
Yeah,
no, no, I think that's what it is and it's wild that it works at all.
Steph (30:26)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Right? I think because a lot of women in history that we read about, it's like, or that we learn about, it's these women who are thrust into these powerful positions at a young age, and they dominate.
These are like inspiring stories that we are told about women who rise to the occasion, young girls, it's that. They like broker their power, they consolidate their power, they're sent off to land where they know nothing and they rise to the top. And then you get this, like that doesn't, that's not, I guess it's a version of a coming of age story, but it's like one that's less fun. Cause it's like they're thrust into the adult world and they welcome it and then they become adult. Whereas this one, like it's.
this idea of kind of the rich spoiled tween who just wants to keep living that life. And it layers on top of that like idea of the modern day version of that really well.
Netta (31:21)
And somebody who, to your point, like, I mean, the way we see her, think she probably very likely might never have grown into a, you know, mature ruler, blah. But she doesn't get the chance to.
So she kind of emb- like what you're saying about this being a coming of age story, it's like she comes of age and then she dies. Like immediately.
in terms of like why Marie Antoinette for this kind of coming of age story and the ways that she's different from other historical figures, I think the way that she's been maligned by history and the history books, the idea that she said, let them eat cake, which I think did not happen actually.
Steph (31:57)
Yeah.
Let's meet Jake!
my God,
I love in the movie when they say that and then it cuts her and she's like, that's not what I said. Like very sassy or whatever. That was very funny.
Netta (32:16)
Mm hmm.
And so this thing of kind of almost like reclaiming her or I don't know about reclaiming but like, obviously saying that actually, no, she's not this like evil, which she is sort of an every girl who was put into this very heightened situation. And I guess like, because it's so heightened, is part of why
Steph (32:23)
Mm.
Yeah, situa-
Netta (32:41)
it works very well to like accentuate and like really bring out certain parts of girlhood and certain parts of those coming of age stories. They're just gonna be so much more accentuated and like so much more of that is gonna come out.
Steph (32:48)
Mm-hmm.
Yes, like extra
like turned up.
Like there, I love that the movie gives you this very insulated perspective. Like you hear about these things and you see what they're doing, but it's all from their perspective. It's their world. Like you don't leave. Versailles, you don't leave her little farmstead to see what's going on. Like it's very fixated on her character and Louie's character.
And that is it. And so you hear about these things.
Netta (33:21)
Yeah. Yeah. And I think like what you just said though about the perspective of the movie being like very insular, I think is super interesting and so true. And I think like, it's really interesting when they decided to end the movie with them leaving Versailles and the fall of Versailles because it's like, okay, once that bubble is
Steph (33:29)
Mm.
Mm-hmm.
Bye.
Netta (33:47)
Once they're no longer insulated, the movie is over. This is really about their life in Versailles and her life at Versailles. Which is just kind of an interesting choice and I think makes a lot of sense for many reasons, but like, ⁓ yeah, it's kind of like, okay, the growing up part is done now. We have to leave the cocoon. ⁓ Actually, probably should have done that a lot earlier.
Steph (33:51)
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Yes. Yeah, yeah, like actually, maybe probably
something. And when I said that, I actually realized, yeah, like I don't think the movie ever leaves either one of them. Like. Kirsten Dunst and Jason Swartzman, like I think they are like I'm trying to think through it, other than maybe the scene where the king dies, like they're pretty much in every single scene.
Netta (34:26)
Yeah.
It's true.
Steph (34:33)
And
like you're not getting ⁓ like another movie about the French Revolution, Marie Antoinette would have like interspersed sauce of like what's going on in the town? What are the ramifications of the choices being made? Well, it just shows shots of her family, I guess, but it's still about her. Like whenever it cuts to her family, they're talking about her. They're giving you more context on her. But yeah, it's an interesting and fun choice, maybe, to keep the focus so on them inside that bubble.
Netta (34:58)
Yeah, yeah, no, that's such a good point.
Steph (35:01)
It allows that light tone to continue, because you're not seeing what's going on in reality.
Netta (35:04)
Yeah.
No, it's so true and allows it to be that coming of age story so that anything, everything happening in the movie feeds into that. So it's not like you have, you know, her having her coming of age story and then separately there's all of this like palace intrigue, right? Any palace intrigue is sort of feeding into
Steph (35:13)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Netta (35:32)
her mood and what she's trying to get away from and all of that.
Steph (35:38)
It's very like
most coming of age movies. It's very focused on the main character and where that main character is at. And they are not a part of the adult thing going on. And any of the adult things going on, they see through their kind of eyes or their tween eyes. What is that? Oh, yeah. Like I'm thinking about some of the other coming of age movies that we've watched.
Netta (35:56)
Ooh, so true. I love that.
Steph (36:03)
It's very, very focused on only their perspective and the adult things that happen are from their perspective.
Netta (36:09)
So true.
Steph (36:10)
I know. ⁓ While you're perusing your notes there, can we just talk about the accent situation for a moment?
Netta (36:13)
Yeah.
Yes.
Steph (36:16)
What? So when you, what's that word you use about things that are not accurate but it doesn't matter because the movie's just fun?
Netta (36:22)
I mean, we were saying anachronistic before, that just means that it's wrong in terms of timeline and time era.
Steph (36:25)
Yes. Nope.
⁓ This is just okay. The accent situation is wrong because it is downright wrong like I feel like movies Use a lot of tricks to like do accents and to show like I think it's like Alexander I watched something once that they said like they wanted all the actors to use like they're real wherever they were from to show like like Multiculturalism and this is a time of the olden days where there's accents and it's like this is insane
Netta (36:38)
Yeah.
Steph (37:01)
But a lot of movies use like the British accent, for example, to show like it's a different time. This movie has abandoned ship on any logic. You have American speakers, you have people with British accents coming in. You have one word French being thrown out here and there. Her little baby daughter, like her little daughter speaks French. And then she sings in French. It is
Netta (37:26)
Yeah.
Steph (37:26)
all over the place and they do not care. They are unapologetic about the accent situation. It is ridiculous.
Netta (37:33)
Yeah, I feel like, okay, Rose Burn, she's so good. She's Australian. So they did have her do a British accent.
Steph (37:40)
Rose Byrne. she's so good in this as well. Mm-hmm. Yeah. They
did, I know, I know. was like, I she was Australian. Why are they making her British?
Netta (37:55)
But yeah, is kind of wild.
so for her to have an American accent kind of made sense because the whole point is she's an outsider, she's a foreigner. It makes sense to me that they're using a British accent for the French royal court because for an Anglo audience, this is the British.
Steph (38:08)
It's fancy. It sounds fancy. I know,
it like makes sense, but it's silly.
Netta (38:15)
It's well, I mean, do you really expect them to have French accents? In this movie? No, I think what's weird, though, is then her brother has a British accent, her mom has a British accent, but her husband, Louis, the dauphin has an American accent. So does his, I think the grandfather, like the king at the beginning has an American accent. You know what it kind of makes me think of?
Steph (38:18)
Noooo
Yes, this is what I mean! This is what I mean!
Yeah.
Yes! It...
What?
Netta (38:42)
Like the way colorblind casting works now, which I often really like, not, but it's not just whatever. It's kind of like you choose who the lead, like there has to be, there ha it has to make sense in relation to each other, but not necessarily in relation to like the time period or the context. like, if you have, ⁓ like in Bridgerton,
Steph (38:46)
Like just like just whatever.
Like who you want and then
Yes, yes.
Netta (39:07)
if there is a, ⁓ if it's a black woman and an Asian man who get together, that doesn't make sense for the time period at all, but the child that they cast will be biracial to kind of reflect, right? And so I think there's that kind of internal logic. And so here there's kind of an internal logic where you have this sort of like,
Steph (39:14)
Mm-hmm.
Yes, yes, that's great!
I don't know if there is none of-
Netta (39:33)
I think so, right, for Louis and Marie Antoinette and Louis' dad to have the same accent. So it kind of like puts them together. And then everybody in the royal court to have a British accent, more or less.
Steph (39:48)
But then also
her brother and mom have written, this is what I mean, like when I say it's ridiculous, I think to your point, a lot of other movies that do this type of thing, like they use certain devices or whatever to show different things, they at least keep it consistent within that world. Bridgerton is a great example with that. Everything makes sense, you know, there. ⁓ Like I think I use Alexander, it's poked fun at because of the different accents, but everybody had a different accent, so it was like,
Netta (39:51)
with
Steph (40:17)
That is the internal world and that is fine. Like, great. This one, it doesn't make, it never made sense to me. have everybody just, like, maybe everybody ⁓ in her family can have a different accent. Like, why is her child speaking French and no one else is speaking French? Is it just to remind us that this is taking place in France for a second? Her brother is English. I don't remember her mom, but you said she's also English. Rose Byrne is English, but she,
Her real accent is Australian. Like, what are they doing? And the rest of the court, can't remember. Like, Madame Dewberry, she was American accent.
Netta (40:54)
What's she? I don't remember. I don't remember. What was the?
Steph (40:55)
I think so. She says she says
she says one word in French at their dinner table. I think she goes pardon. Like it just it doesn't seem like there's any internal logic and it was silly.
Netta (41:00)
⁓ Okay.
Maybe. Somehow it just worked intuitively maybe. I don't know. I... hmm... hmm... hmm...
Steph (41:08)
It was fun. ⁓ my God.
Hmm.
And like her, yeah, like the, when in the scene that she's like getting dressed and all the ladies come in to dress her, that woman is English.
Netta (41:24)
Yeah.
Steph (41:24)
But like, why is... Yeah, I don't know. Maybe just some people could do accents and some people couldn't.
Netta (41:27)
It almost knocked-
Maybe I mean, it definitely marks. It's interesting, I guess, because it marks. Louie and Marie Antoinette as like almost lower than everyone else, because like, obviously, a British accent is more sophisticated than an American one. And yeah, the fact that like the baby has like a French one, but nobody else does.
Steph (41:46)
yeah?
I know.
Netta (41:53)
I don't know. I guess it didn't feel silly to me in the sense that it didn't take away from the movie for me in a way that I think it definitely, it could if it felt silly in the way that like say maybe Alexander felt silly.
Steph (42:03)
Mm, yes. I should clarify- Yeah.
Yeah, I think this movie, the point was to like have fun with the topic. And so though I think it's like the internal logic, like they lost the plot there, it doesn't really matter. Like they're having fun. They're just doing their thing. They're showing like maybe different classes of life with the different accents they use. Like Rose Byrne, like she comes in, she's like the exotic friend that hasn't been around in a while. And she has this great accent.
there's like Molly Shannon's character and the sister-in-law, like they don't have accents. Like it's just the internal logic is completely, completely out the window. ⁓ but yeah, maybe it just, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. It's also like she would like she's coming to France from Austria. Like she wouldn't speak a lick of French. Maybe she would. Maybe they would have taught her. I don't know.
But that's the whole, yeah, this movie is silly in that way. It's not leaning into these historical facts.
Netta (43:11)
We've talked about the music quite a bit, which is so good. I think it's also interesting when there's no music, like how quiet many of the scenes are, especially. Yes, especially at the beginning. mean, Kirsten Dunst is in almost every shot.
Steph (43:13)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Yes, very deliberately so.
Netta (43:32)
much less every scene, especially for the first like 30 to 40 minutes. She has like four or five lines, maybe? I mean, I think she doesn't think the first time she speaks is maybe 30 minutes in and she says, are we there yet?
Steph (43:32)
Mm-hmm.
Mmm.
Oh, really? No way. No way, because she's like talking to her little girlfriends in the carriage.
Netta (43:47)
I think so. I think so.
I'm not sure if she's
that maybe she does say something there, but I think it's like, I think it might be the friends. Yeah.
Steph (43:56)
It's quiet. It's like, this is him. Yeah,
it's the you're right. Like she doesn't have any big dialogue past like a comment for some time. Your point. Yes.
Netta (44:08)
Yeah.
And so there's all of these scenes that are really very, don't know, very quiet. I think it makes the movie seem like serious. it also maybe lets you kind of absorb because there is so much happening in the frame just in terms of like the visuals of it. And also just like the sense of like, here's this
Steph (44:18)
No! Yes.
Mm-hmm.
Netta (44:31)
girl, this tween, who already like from the beginning does not seem suited to like an austere, I mean, it's hard to call it austere because it's so lavish, like the setting, but like, this kind of very regimented way of life and this like, lots of ceremony and where she doesn't really have much of a voice.
Steph (44:33)
Mm-hmm.
Hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Netta (44:52)
And she, you know, doesn't necessarily really find it except maybe when she's like partying, I guess.
Steph (44:55)
See?
Yeah,
with like with the other like she tries to talk to Louie and stuff, she's yeah. Do you like keys? What do you like about your keys? I wondered if they use this idea of her not having a lot of dialogue at the beginning as like a device to show ⁓ the difference in like culture and language and all of these things. ⁓ Like you're right, because it is quiet.
Netta (45:04)
Do you like these?
Steph (45:28)
Like when she shows up in her carriage and they do the scene with the tent and she goes from one side to the other, like it's very quiet. The people who are talking are giving her instruction. She seems very overwhelmed and very like, like what is happening here and stuff like she doesn't quite get it. ⁓ And then when she goes and meets the king. ⁓
I'm trying to remember the thing she said was funny. When she gets out of the carriage and she meets somebody when she finally arrives, she's like, I'll never forget. You're the one who's responsible for my happiness. Like she's very like, she's saying the thing she's supposed to say and nothing more like at all. And I think they, they use it as kind of a device to show her like foreignness to this land is what I think. That's what I took from it. Like she's quiet because she like she's being
Netta (46:02)
Yeah.
Interesting,
Yeah.
Steph (46:16)
shy, she's being like timid, she doesn't know where she can, sorry, where she's gonna fit, like it's intimidating. And when she's coming in in the procession, it's interesting, there's all like the crowd is all like the people who are so excited about her. And then it slowly morphs into the people of the court who are like judging her and she's like, oh. And then she falls kind of quiet again and isn't smiling so much. And there's some really cool devices I think they use to show like
to portray what her perspective may have been.
Netta (46:45)
That's so interesting because I think I was kind of seeing it as it being about her being young. But I think those kind of work together, right? This sort of what you saying before about it being a fish out of water story and just how overwhelmed she might be and how careful she is going into it, both in the sense of like this, this.
Steph (46:52)
Mmm.
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Yeah.
Yes.
Netta (47:09)
adult world or this kind of new life, but also just this foreign world.
Steph (47:13)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Because we like see her later. She's not quiet. She's not shy. She's very extroverted. She wants to make friends and all this stuff. So I think that's why I think they use it as like a device at the beginning to show like she's like intimidated by the situation, which leans into what you were saying. Like she is childlike coming into a new situation. But I think they they also like emphasize kind of the gap in like
Netta (47:16)
Yeah.
Steph (47:40)
the cultures and what a crazy thing it is for a 14 year old girl to be completely pulled away from her family and thrust to the limelight in a very different place. Like it seems scary watching it. It's like, not scary horror, like, you know, anxiety inducing.
Netta (47:51)
Yeah, 100%. Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Well, it's
no, it's true. And I feel like her foreignness keeps coming up. So like one, I mean, there's there's that more pointed scene where ⁓ the advisor, the whoever is trying to make her pay attention to actual foreign affairs and political affairs. ⁓ And there's a conflict between
Steph (48:03)
Mmm, mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Netta (48:23)
potential conflict between Austria and France or whatever and and she's like well, what am I supposed to do? I mean when when this happens am I the dauphine of France or am I Austrian and You know, she's supposed to be both ⁓ Which she doesn't really know how to be either. Well, she knows how to be Austrian She doesn't really know how to be the dauphine or the Queen but I think that the
Steph (48:29)
Like, who am I? Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Netta (48:50)
One other thing that I kind of remember from the history of this time is that her foreignness played a very big role in the French Revolution. ⁓ This was something I really did not know or appreciate is that like leading up to the French Revolution sort of in that slow burn over those years.
Steph (48:59)
Mmm.
Okay.
Netta (49:14)
was a lot of just like conspiracy theories and like, those are some of the things that really activated people. And many of them, if not most of them centered on her. So that line where somebody jokingly says, oh, well, you know, she's a Austrian spy, ha ha ha. That was absolutely thought to be the case by many. And yeah, you kind of, this also gets dropped in.
Steph (49:16)
Mmm.
⁓ interesting.
Yes, yes. That was a thing. ⁓ interesting.
Netta (49:40)
in the scene where her friends are reading this kind of publication that has rumors about her, about all of her extramarital relations, and that she said, let them eat cake and blah, ⁓ So yeah, her foreignness is extremely important to, I think, just like the whole history of the French Revolution. ⁓
Steph (49:50)
Yes.
Mm-hmm.
thing.
Mm-hmm.
Netta (50:07)
And yeah, I think you're so right that they really established that very early on in that really strong way. And then referring to it as they
Steph (50:14)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Netta (50:20)
what do you, are you,
I feel like I'm trying to ask two different questions that are basically the same question,
like, if you think that the French Revolution was like this great and righteous thing, and that these were, ⁓ or if you just think that like, royalty and monarchy is a terrible form of government, and like should fall, like, I guess if you're rooting for the revolutionaries,
Steph (50:32)
Mmm.
Yeah, I see what you're saying.
Netta (50:48)
or you're rooting against the Royals even just in a generic sense, does that change how you regard her as a character in this movie? ⁓ You know what I mean?
Steph (50:52)
You
Whoa,
I don't know. think monarchies are like hard to keep. I think like when we look at history, there's always like overthrows and revolutions and this, that and the other. ⁓ I think aside from what I think about it, they didn't rule well, so they lost theirs. What was the other part of the question?
Netta (51:07)
Mm.
I guess just like does, do you have like more or less sympathy for her as a character in this movie? Because she's a royal and like maybe you think royalty is great and you really want a queen in place or maybe you think royalty is terrible and you're like, you know, I feel for her, I guess, but like, who cares? She's just like some spoiled rich girl who.
Steph (51:33)
Mmm
think, yeah, okay.
Netta (51:48)
became queen and did a bad job and like she should be deposed and like all these bad things should happen to her.
Steph (51:54)
I
think the idea of shipping off 14 year olds to marry and reign is insane. At one point they were doing something in the movie. I don't know what they were doing. They might have been like attempting to rule. And I was thinking about how in modern day society we don't let like in the States, like you're not allowed to drink until you're 21.
Netta (52:02)
Okay.
Steph (52:18)
And back in the day, you are 14 and asked to rule a country. Like, I think that is insane. But it's also like it's a different time. People were not living to 50 and 60. Right. Like to gain the wisdom of the day and this, that and the other. So I think like her life. And many people's lives at that time, like like.
Netta (52:18)
Yeah.
Steph (52:38)
being a woman, like being a girl, being born into a royal family, like it's awful. You're then like shipped off to just marry somebody you've never met and rule people you don't know in a country you're not born into. So like, I think her story is quite like sad, isn't that kind of like, I think she also like sucked. So I don't know. Same question to you.
Netta (52:53)
Mm.
Yeah, I don't know. I've been thinking about this. like, I think I've been, I think I was surprised by how much I was rooting for her, I guess. Yeah.
Steph (52:59)
I don't know. We don't know enough.
Really? Okay, I like,
simply put, no, I'm not rooting for her at all, and you are.
Netta (53:14)
Okay.
Okay. What do you I think, well, I think and I think some of it is just like, this new sense that actually the French Revolution was insane. until maybe that's part of it is like, it's not that I think royalty, like I'm not a monarchist. I don't think like, ⁓ I'm not there being like, no, she should definitely be spending 50,000.
Steph (53:17)
No!
Yeah.
Mm-hmm. Yes, yes.
Netta (53:39)
Franks a month on like, you know, sweets and things while people start. I'm not rooting for her in that sense, but I think also the revolutionaries are not on a pedestal for me in any or not. I'm not really rooting for them either.
Steph (53:43)
Mm-hmm.
Mmm.
Netta (54:00)
I'm remembering it correctly, like the night that they evacuated Versailles was terrifying. Like, like, ⁓ there was a lot of just like, people cutting each other's heads off during the French Revolution. ⁓ even before the guillotine. So I think like the night that they evacuated Versailles, her
Steph (54:06)
Mm-hmm.
my. yes, the guillotine moment.
⁓ yes, okay.
Netta (54:22)
there were some guards outside her bedroom and like the mob cut their head, like at least one of their heads off. And apparently like it was not a clean cut and took a lot. Like.
Steph (54:25)
Mm.
Cut their heads off.
my.
You're like,
Netta (54:36)
It's very gruesome, the French Revolution.
Steph (54:38)
Yeah,
it's incredibly gruesome. ⁓
Netta (54:41)
So gruesome. I don't remember
that from when I learned about it in high school as much.
Steph (54:46)
Really? Ooh,
I do. I remember learning about how it was a very, very dark time with like Robespierre and the Reign of Terror and all that good stuff.
Netta (54:49)
You
But all of this is after the revolution. mean, even like leading up to the Queen and King being deposed, which itself takes a lot of time. So after they evacuated Versailles, it's again, I think several years until the whatever, ⁓ the revolutionaries even decide that actually we don't want a monarchy. Actually, what we're going to do with the monarchies is kill them because it didn't start out
Steph (55:19)
yeah, I don't remember. Okay.
Netta (55:23)
It didn't start out as like, don't know. It's a weird little revolution. It's a weird big revolution,
So I think maybe that kind of equalizes it so that she can just be this character.
Steph (55:30)
Okay.
Mmm.
Netta (55:37)
that we're seeing in this movie and like, I can kind of care about her as such without it being a matter of, ⁓ you know, she's a bad queen, I don't know. And maybe also again, I think like, maybe because later on in the movie, or there is enough time where she is established as like,
you know, this family, her family and her relationship with Louie and her kids does become so important. So when the two of them are under siege, maybe and when all of them are under siege, maybe I kind of feel for them as a family. But I think also, and I'm just I'm just trying to figure this out. Like, why is it that I'm rooting for this like, oil royal, but like, I think maybe some of it is also, again, that last
Steph (56:23)
You
Netta (56:29)
one of the last scenes there where there is the storming of Versailles and they are under siege and you just hear the mob and the throng just outside.
I think they're...
can be a feeling sometimes of like...
Like there's just so much chaos around you and you just are trying to hunker down and keep your family good. know what I mean? But I'm not, you know, I'm not in like Versailles while that's happening, but that doesn't, the fact that they're in this opulent space for some reason on this viewing anyway, it just doesn't diminish my, my,
Steph (56:48)
Hmm.
Yeah. Yeah.
Hmm.
Netta (57:13)
feeling for them, I guess, in a way that I would, is very surprising to me that it doesn't.
Steph (57:15)
⁓
I know, and I was gonna say, the one, I guess, you're talking about it, the one thing that does get to me, now being a mom, I guess, is when she's holding, one of the babies won't stop crying, her son won't stop crying, when the mob is there and making all the noise, and it's like, that's terrible. As a parent, you just wanna protect your kids and keep them safe, and they're portraying this as they are failing, they are unable to keep their kids safe, but in that vein, I think they probably, in this movie, should have sent the kids away.
earlier and then I think about this mob and their kids and their families dying and starving and I'm like ⁓ are not good. Like I don't know this I didn't and maybe I just took it as like this is a movie this is like a fantastical depiction of like terrible events in real life and I didn't really like think that deeply per se but I don't think as a character I guess I can't separate
the history I know and like the reality I know from the movie and the character. So I don't feel like sympathy for her, I guess. I think she's given all of these things and she's given a platform and she doesn't use it.
Netta (58:16)
Okay.
Yeah, she's just, it's, it's, yeah, what, what, ⁓
What do you do emotionally about the spoiled rich girl who's in distress? Right? I think that, you know, yeah.
Steph (58:32)
Right? And yeah, and
I understand like the idea of people being married off and not really having a say in their future. Like it is like the burden of royalty, right? Like ⁓ you're the burden of royalty, but like you're thrust into a position that you may or may not want. ⁓ And I don't know, I can't relate to that. don't know. But it just ⁓ the way the movie depicts her. I don't feel.
for her. She comes across as a spoiled rich kid who the jig is up. Her number gets called and she's like, oops, and has to flee with her family.
Netta (59:04)
Mmm.
Mm.
No. All right, fair enough. Yeah.
Steph (59:11)
I'm cold.
Yeah. Okay. So what are you in the mood for next?
Netta (59:16)
That's a great question.
Steph (59:18)
Ugh,
The question.
Netta (59:19)
I feel like pretty open. I'm not like in a particular mood, I would say. ⁓
Steph (59:21)
Okay.
Netta (59:28)
Hmm. I feel like I could go back to like those 90s classic. I wouldn't complain. ⁓
Steph (59:33)
Hi, really?
No.
Netta (59:38)
I
think I want to be entertained is how I feel.
Steph (59:41)
⁓
I would love to be interested. ⁓ I feel like like I really enjoyed the entertainment factor of this movie. And I would like that again.
Netta (59:51)
Yeah. Yeah.
Steph (59:59)
Well, thanks for listening to Popcorn Moms. If you like what you heard, we'd really appreciate your support. Subscribe to the show, rate and review us, and maybe most importantly, share it with someone you know. Word of mouth is super important. Until next time, may you watch in peace.
Netta (1:00:13)
Yeah, don't know. don't know about that. Yeah, like watching. Well, I mean, watching so it refers to movies.
Steph (1:00:16)
May you watch in peace. Like watch movies or listen to the podcast.
It's just
yeah, maybe we should say may you watch movies.
Netta (1:00:29)
Okay.
Steph (1:00:29)
Or do you want to just leave it?
Netta (1:00:31)
We can, I just think the whole line is bad. So I'm not really sure.
Steph (1:00:36)
We're workshopping it! We're workshopping it! ⁓
No, I like it. Leave it. I like it for now.